Amiga Tools 3/Amiga Tools 3.iso/grafik/raytracing/imagine/tips/arc46.txt

Text File | 1994-02-20 | 672KB | 16,936 lines

This is the Imagine Mailing List ([e-mail]) Archive #46
covering messages from Jan. 03. 1994 to Feb. 2. 1994.
If you have any questions or problems with this file, E-mail Nik Vukovljak
at [e-mail]

Thanks goes to Neil Miller for his efforts in creating the new header stripper
for me.





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 1   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 3 Jan 94 23:50:07 MST
From: [e-mail] (Ben Scott)
    of Denver.  The University has neither control over nor
    responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users.
Subject: Ping

>  I suspect the dearth of postings to
> the list to be theresult of the holiday aftermath,

I thought it was because I sent in an unsubscribe notice to imagine-request
last week... what's goin' on?

> I've also noticed a growing number of persons abandoning Imagine.

The response to my offer of info regarding the switch to Real3D just bowled
me over.  I got about six people the first day I posted that message and I'm
still getting a few inquiries.

> think this is just a vocal minority, or is this software really about to
> bite the dust?

Imagine is as good as it always was.  Trouble is, everything else has gotten
better as time went by.  Plus many of us are sick of Impulse.  I don't want to
be an Imagine basher just because I've moved on, but I am glad I moved on...
Activa isn't perfect but they don't have a real tough act to follow.

.                              <<<<Infinite K>>>>
--
.---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Ben Scott, video animation dilettante and consultant at The Raster Image. |
| [e-mail], 24 hours a day!/\-----------------------------------|
|---------------------------------------.\ Powered by the mighty Amiga 4000 |
| "I don't need this prima-donna crap - `-----------------------------------|
| not even from the great Edison bloody Carter! - Gorrister, _Max Headroom_ |
`---------------------------------------------------------------------------'


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 2   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Gigamem?
Date: Mon,  3 Jan 94 23:41:04 PST

Imagine2.0 + A4000/040/ + Gigamem = problem?

On the above system I have a 30 MB VM partition -- but Imagine only uses
about 2.5 MBs of it and then starts eating real memory. I've tried various
settings -- real mem first, virtual first, partition, file, etc -- all
with the same results.

Other programs use the vm okay (like ADPro which will gladly swallow
the entire 30 MBs into its buffer!).

Any suggestions? You will have the graditude of many thankful students!

Samuel "Dr. Allosaurus" Crider
Computer Graphics Lab Coordinator
Columbia College Chicago
[e-mail]


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 3   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 04 Jan 94 11:18:29 +0000
From: [e-mail]

Hi,
    Have you changed the Minimum size for gigamem to allocate virtual
memory to Imagine? I've managed fine with the exact same set up. (I had only
a 20meg partition, but that shouldn't matter.) I used Imagine to render
Carman Rizzos (sorry if I got your name wrong) Enterprise object. I have
only 6meg of normal ram. I think imagine used about 5 meg of Virtual ram to
do it. It must ask for very small blocks a lot.

                        regards,

                        Stephen.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 4   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 08:17:17 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ping


Somebody asks:

> think this is just a vocal minority, or is this software really about to
> bite the dust?

Well, Imagine *is* really cheap, which probably guarantees it some life
yet.  You can pick up Imagine 2.0 for what, $99.00 new?  Or get the
integer version from that magazine almost for free and upgrade to 3.0/FP
later.

Personally, I'm here for a bit longer, but only because 1) I've already
spent the time to get over Imagine's learning curve, 2) I've invested in
3rd party tools to address limitations in Imagine (bought both Essences,
and just ordered the Vertex modeler), and 3) Real3D has a dongle, and 4)
Lightwave+toaster is a bit out of my hobbyist's budget, and LightRave is
of dubious legality.

But still, I get frustrated at Impulse's lack of real progress,
especially when there are so many simple things which clearly should be
done to improve the product, and they're not doing them.  I agree that
Imagine was tops when it came out (what was it, late 80s I think?), but
its got an old, inflexible architecture and its getting blown away these
days.

Personally, in an "ideal world", my preferences in order from best to
worst (just including things I might hope to afford, which rules out
Alias, Wavefront, etc :-) ) would be something like this:

  1. Lightwave
  2. Real 3D
  3. Imagine

Also, I haven't seen much about this new Revelation software, but it
sounds from the feature list like it might come in about R3D's level
somewhere.  I'm not sure about Aladdin or Caligari or any of the others.

But this unfortunately not being an ideal world, I have a limited budget
for new software.  Thus, I'm still using Imagine, in spite of Impulse,
not because of them.

Momentum can be a strong factor for us hobbyist-types, but it certainly
doesn't last forever.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 5   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 12:10:42 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
Subject: ONE FROM IMPULSE INC.



Greetings Imagineers!  :-)

As promised, I have been forwarding the output of the
IML (all posts) to Impulse. Until I get them up and
running locally here, I will continue to keep Mike and
company informed on the discussions here. It won't be
long now until they are live online with us again.

IN THE MEANTIME, here is a response that Mike just sent me:

------------ Begin Enclosure -----------------------------------------



Dave, and those who wish to listen,

    To all users of the Imagine Mailing List.

    Amazing, and you think we are sitting on our hands. Absurd.  We are
working our hands to the bone creating the most robust Imagine you have
ever seen.  You have no sense of fair play or patience.  We are indeed
late, and late may be the understatement of the year.  However it seems
that instead of people leaving Imagine, we add new customers and users
everyday.

    As far as Imagine keeping pace, I respond in the following manner.
Imagine is till the fastest render, and most powerfull render around, for
the money.  You can get more for about 10K but that is a bit out of the
realm for most humans.

    We are always egar to hear complaints, critques and other concerns,
but these seem to be out of the basket.  Soon we will release 3.0 and
hopefully you will find the investment well worth dollars spent.

    I would ask people to start acting with a degree of class.  Your
messages reach me and in most cases they are offensive, not helpfull.  We
are not in some contest for a position, we are trying to create a lasting
relationship with users who realize the complexity of what we are doing and
realize that with the help they offer we will deliver the goods.  It is far
eaiser to light a candle than to curse the darkness.  Much of the
complaints or bitches that I see here are people yelling in the dark.  Turn
on the lights, if you have questions and concerns, call me, I am not too
big to take your call and listen to your concerns, or drop me a message on
CIS I will be glad to respond.

    When are we going to be done, we are working to get things wrapped
up by the end of the month of Jan and then send out the upgardes to the
people who have taken the plunge and sent in their funds.  If for some
reason you dont trust us, please wait until we are done and the consider
the reviews.

    Our goal is and has always been the same, we are listening to what
you have to say and what helps the most are constructive suggestions, you
have made them and they just arent as easy to implement as you might think.
 We are close to being done and with a bit of luck from the rendering gods
we will get this version out the door very soon.

    I await your replys and look forward to giving you my answers.

    Mike Halvorson


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 6   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 04 Jan 94 13:59:42 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)
Subject: Soap attribute


Finally, i succeed, in making a perfect soap bounle or how do you call those
boubles, made with ie. soap and water ? :D

I Hope UUencode postings is ok, i'm not sure coz. this is my first posting
to the IML....

If anyone want me to type the specs of the attribute, just write me a note.

It is about time..

begin 644 SOAPBOUB.LHA
M(54M;&@U+=D```"T`0``$V\D'```"U-/05`N0D]50DQ%52@`LUIVVC3D?UHF_
M$X86E:!HRE&5VMZEY*WN.[L'&AH;:$F@[3='TQ&,Q&.O@$QF2P[!8-_O%7.,T
M&-+P:F&U,M9U,R@1:G333*[LG80]$R&REOXJ/E0`.MJZ$,1AD'.-H.LM7A&`H
MM34D/`.D.]+2UVB(?<_3M3X(A]\GOE:SL<0>HK,!*JED&WCNWL1/3`9C&<P]N
M4![=/NU<LD!V5\'/=C(>S^>_P_3\&//O?#GLN[_&[=EP_H^LKM\(^GRG7Q%'"
<>YT/^8$N?B7F]?;RSY\P6Q<D$BN":'%Z@M1P`+_&&
``
end
size 253

   _:        So/ren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
   |  A2000c/68030/68882/9/345/33Mhz   /_______\                    |

... He walks as if balancing the family tree on his nose.-Via DDDGate @ 2:230/418.0  DDDGate 1.42 (30.09.93)


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 7   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (William V. Swartz)
Subject: alternative modellers
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 14:12:36 -0500 (EST)

I have seen some mention lately of the Vertex modeller so I went and ftp'd
the version 2.0 demo for evaluation.  I have asked some stores about it and
their distributors don't carry it.  Where is the full version available
from?

Also, I vaguely recall a modeller that supported X-Specs glasses but can't
seem to find it.  Anyone know of this or any other alternative modellers?

Which is best?

  //
\X/ -BiL-
    [e-mail]             (See my 'Imagine'-ary signature below)


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 8   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
Subject: Does Impulse hear us?
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 13:06:16 -0600 (CST)

Awful lot of complaints about Imagine lately... justified ones, in my
mind.

About five years ago, I switched from Sculpt-Animate to Turbo Silver
because I thought S-A *stank*... too buggy, too clumsy.

Seems to me that much the same thing is happening with Imagine now...
<sigh>... not only have they not fixed old bugs from 2.0 to 2.9 (I hear,
I haven't gotten it yet...) but they're introducing new ones.  Not quite
the kind of thing I want to hear... most companies consider bug fixes to
be *minor* revision numbers, not *major* ones.

Plus, I agree with the sentiment of supporting the Amiga for what it is,
not a PCompatible.  I groaned inwardly when I heard about a PC version,
not because I have something against the PC, but because I was afraid
that they might make Imagine into an IBM port.  It would appear that is
what's happening.

Hmm... seems to me Impulse should be seeing this stuff... do they still
get the list?

If they don't, I have a suggestion.  I think we should put together an
E-Mail or Snail-Mail letter to them, telling them the reasons people
are dissatisfied, and suggesting that maybe they get their act together...
I don't really want to switch programs, having used Impulse's software
for five years.  But if Imagine ends up like Sculpt, lacking important
features and having important bugs, I will do so.  People think I'm weird
because I wanted to use Imagine with the Toaster... but I'm becoming less
and less inclined to do so.

If you all want, I will type up a letter... give me suggestions, and tell
me their E-Mail address...
--
     Gordon Schumacher

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "I woke up on the wrong side of bed this   _@_      |
|     Urbana     morning... underneath it!"               /   \     |
|                    -Jason Freeburg                     | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 9   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: ckcs![e-mail]
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 11:44:00 -0500

I called the other day to inquire about the price of Real 3d for the PC.
I was told that the current version was still a beta version, and that
the price for the full version (when it was ready would be $1200+.
Is this crazy or what?  I asked about the Amiga version, and was told
that it was only $400+.  Does anyone know what the difference between
the two versions are besides the price, or since Autodesk charges so
much for 3D Studio, are they trying to set their prices to match.  I
think that I will just stick with Imagine.  Lets give Impulse a chance
to get 3.0 out the door before everyone starts to jump ship, if you
could afford to.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 10   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 15:28:24 EST
         (from Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>)
         (at Tue, 28 Dec 93 11:36:57 EST)
From: [e-mail] (Yury German)
Subject: Re: IMPULSES LACK OF SPECIFIC OS SUPPORT

Hi Steve (Steve J. Lombardi), in <[e-mail]> on Dec 28 you wrote:

:
: BTW... This is not meant as a flame towards impulse. THey can manage
: or mis-manage their software however they please. users can then choose
: to use/not use their product. I merely hope to continue a constructive thread
: on the subject of OS support and imagine.

Well it seems that they are on the right trak to mismanage the software.
It seems last time I talked to Mike (before Christmas) his idea is that
this software is for the hoby crowd and that whatever it ha will be enough
for all of us who want to venture in the professional world with it. It
seems that alot of features that Lightwave and all other software have
will never get implemented because Imagine is a hoby program... and a
hobyist does not need it. Yet he braged to me all day long how his
comercials are airing on TV and were done with imagine. I guess he did not
like the line I followed with. "Yes thats why you will always stay at
comercials while Lightwave is doing movies". I did not want to spend the
huge Cash for a few Toasters... but I guess it might be needed in the
future especially since we got the pre alpha program in 2.9 and alot of
the things that are hot write now (like kinematics and so on..) will never
come to be!


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 11   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 18:43:44 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Re: ONE FROM IMPULSE INC.

>     I would ask people to start acting with a degree of class.  Your
> messages reach me and in most cases they are offensive, not helpfull.  We
> are not in some contest for a position, we are trying to create a lasting
> relationship with users who realize the complexity of what we are doing and
> realize that with the help they offer we will deliver the goods.  It is far
> eaiser to light a candle than to curse the darkness.  Much of the
> complaints or bitches that I see here are people yelling in the dark.  Turn
> on the lights, if you have questions and concerns, call me, I am not too
> big to take your call and listen to your concerns, or drop me a message on
> CIS I will be glad to respond.
>

`CLICK'

At one point, some time ago, I posted several questions directly to Mike here
on the mailing list.  For some reason, rather than answer them here, he
suggested I FAX them to him.  So I did.  In return I got half a sheet of hand
written, one word or half sentence answers, most of which were, to say the
least, unsatisfying.  So I will ask again, from this dark corner in which
I sit, a few questions that I've seen posted over and over and, I feel,
deserve an answer.

How about releasing the texture and effects information?  Atleast release it
to Apex so they can get Essence 1 & 2 & pro working.

How about an 040 optimized version of Imagine?

Will you ever support the display database?

Will you ever support the standard interfaces(although I don't mind what
is there now, I've seen this posted several times)?

Is there a plan for bug fix revisions ie 2.91a? 3.01? etc?

Is there a plan for fixing bugs?  eg slice? etc...

Have you tried running Imagine with The Enforcer?  It may help hammer
out some bugs.


Well, thats all from me, anyone else feel free to chime in(as I'm sure you
will).  Going back into the dark now....

`CLICK'


Tom Setzer - self appointed critic
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 12   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 19:12:19 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: ONE FROM IMPULSE INC.


> IN THE MEANTIME, here is a response that Mike just sent me:

> Imagine is till the fastest render, and most powerfull render around, for
> the money.  You can get more for about 10K but that is a bit out of the

I think Mike has a pretty legit point here.  Imagine is cheap, even
compared to Real3D at $379, and certainly compared to LW.  Sometimes its
easy to forget that.

> on the lights, if you have questions and concerns, call me, I am not too
> big to take your call and listen to your concerns, or drop me a message on

Here I have to disagree.  The last time I called Impulse, which
admittedly was a long time ago (years), I had a list of concise
suggestions but received such a hostile reception that I didn't even
bother to state them.  Contrast this with my experience with other
companies such as NovaDesign (ImageFX), or Apex (Essence), or Natural
Graphics, or SAS, or many others - they have all been very helpful,
friendly, and receptive of suggestions and ideas.  Perhaps I just cought
Impulse on a bad day, I dunno.

> have made them and they just arent as easy to implement as you might think.

Again here I must disagree.  Many of the improvements discussed on this
list, particularly usability improvements are *not* hard to do.  I know
this because I program extensively on the Amiga and have added these
things to programs with minimal effort.  How hard is it to use the real
ASL file requester?  I think it took me about 5 minutes last time I did
it (which was less than a week ago), and that includes time to look up
the calls in the RKMs.  How hard is making an AppWindow or AppIcon for
direct drag and drop?  I think this took me 30 minutes, mostly because
I'd never done it before.  Granted, an ARexx port would take some design
work, and perhaps necessitate rearchitecting some internals, but the
actual coding of the thing isn't hard.  How hard is supporting the
display database?  Not hard: I've done it several times.  Even if you
add complications such as the necessity to support archaic OS revs such
as 1.3, things such as ASL requesters are still not *that* bad - its a
no-brainer, really.

Of course, rendering features are a different sort of thing, but with a
few exceptions, I'm pretty much happy with Imagine's abilities in those
areas already, especially when Essence is added to it.  I mostly want
usability and environment improvements.  I suspect many others are in
the same boat.  Sure, I'd like soft edge shadows and other cool things,
but I do realize those things might be hard to do.  But I don't see any
real excuse for lack of standard requesters or display database support.
Heck, I'll even volunteer to send example code to Impulse if they want.

>     Mike Halvorson

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 13   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 19:26:25 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: (Vertex) alternative modellers


> I have seen some mention lately of the Vertex modeller so I went and ftp'd
> the version 2.0 demo for evaluation.  I have asked some stores about it and
> their distributors don't carry it.  Where is the full version available

Yup; I just found it too, and ordered it yesterday.  You can send away
for it to The Art Machine:

  4189 Nicholas
  Sterling Heights, MI 48310

  313-264-2110

I snail-mailed them a check, since they don't take credit card phone orders.

I'm not sure why this thing isn't more popular than it is.  It looks to
address many of the things I've wanted in the Imagine detail editor for
a really long time.  Its got ARexx, too, so you can extend it if it
doesn't do quite what you want, or make your own custom operations to
combine several built in ones, or whatever.

Also, it seems the author (Alex DeBurie) reads the IML, and is willing
to provide email support.  This is a big selling point, IMHO.  He seems
like a generally helpful and friendly sort of guy.

I'll probably post a fuller review of Vertex when I get it, but I was
favorably impressed with the demo version.  My first thought upon trying
it was: "*This* is what the Imagine detail editor should have been :-)"

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 14   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 19:37:11 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: ping


> the price for the full version (when it was ready would be $1200+.

> that it was only $400+.

Actually I've seen as low as $370, and I haven't looked very hard :-)

> Does anyone know what the difference between
> the two versions are besides the price, or since Autodesk charges so
> much for 3D Studio, are they trying to set their prices to match.  I

I think price never reflects what the product does, but only what the
market will bear.  R3D for the PC probably lacks features from the amiga
version (maybe multithreading, certainly ARexx, etc), but since the
market is much larger and since competing products are more money, they
can get away with it.  The Amiga market is very much driven by hobbyist
pricing.  This is great for me, since I'm a hobbyist and can thus manage
to afford many of these cool toys.  But its kind of a bummer for the
companies trying to make a living from selling to only the small and
low-priced Amiga market.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 15   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 94 19:24:55
Subject: My 2 cents


I've been on the IML for a few months now.  Watched messages with flames,
advice, help, points of interest, etc.  But Mostly flames...and I just
let them go by my monitor and shook my head in disgust.  Well...here's
my reply to many of them.
________________________
LACK OD RECENT POSTINGS:

  Someone had the audacity to claim it's because many people have abandoned
Imagine.  On the contrary, many people have abandoned the IML because of
the destructive bickering that goes on.  Plus, people have lives to lead,
work to do etc.  They don't have time to join in on the mental masturbation
that takes place here most of the time.
____________________________________
LACK OF RESPONSIVENESS FROM IMPULSE:

  What???  Call up Impulse and speak to the President, Mike Halvorson.
Address your concerns, ideas, critiques, etc.  He's more than willing to
listen and help.  But have some intelligence when doing it, and have your
facts straight before making vacuous comments.
  I just did.  I made some suggestions and found out that they will be/are in
Imagine 3.0.  What other company can you call up and speak to the
President, and be taken seriously.
____________
LENSE FLARE:

  Hey, _I_ would like to have it.  And I will in 3.0.  The lensflare texture
is here to placate us for now.  3.0 Features a Global FX, post-processing
facility that will add motion blur, lens flares, AFTER the images are
rendered. In the future additional effects could be plugged in.
________________________________
LACK OF FEATURES and STAGNATION:

  Come on people, you need your heads examined if you adhere to this.
Just because you would like _A_ feature thats not there yet, don't
condemn Imagine. Learn to adjust!  Use something else to produce the
required effect.

Question: How many paint programs do you own?  I bet it's more than one.
          Why?  Because each one offers something that the other doesn't.
          Do you bitch and moan because one doesn't offer a feature you
          need? No, you use another program that has it.
______________
AREXX SUPPORT:

   Gee, a few people that learned how to program scripts, who sit around
playing on the computer all day WANT it.  WOW, some incredible magic will
occur if there was an AREXX port.  Gimme a break.
_________________________
NOT SUPPORTING THE AMIGA:

   Excuse me!?  Impulse has supported the Amiga since Day 1.  They are
still supporting the Amiga while others have abandoned it.  Perhaps the
real reason of Impulse & Imagine bashing comes from an insecurity of
_somee_ Amiga users that their computer is dying out and they want some
whiz bang piece of software to save it.  By the way, I own an A1000, A2000 and
an IBM486DX2/66mhz.  So this is not an anti-Amiga paragraph.
________
REAL 3D:

  If you want it, buy it.   You own more than one paint program don't you?
But before comparing REAL 3D to Imagine, _use_ REAL 3D and THEN comment
intelligently as to the differences between the two.
________
ESSENCE:

  It has been said that Impulse crippled Apex Software & their Essence line.
Geeze people, Imagine is the main piece of software that Apex is plugging
into, not the other way around.  Impulse needed to make changes to enhance
Imagine.  Even Imagine 2.0's texture won't work with Imagine 2.9/3.0.
In your eyes, maybe texture tacking wasn't worth the loss of a 3rd party
add on.  To me it was.
  Also, have you played with Imagine's new textures?  They are awesome and
many new effects can be produced when changed from their default settings.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats it for now.  Hopefully this will be the last such message from me.
Please direct flames, comments, kudos directly to me, and not to the IML.

[e-mail]

P.S.  I have no affiliation with Impulse, other than a user of their
      product.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 16   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Date: Wed,  5 Jan 94 03:20:00 BST
Subject: Two Cents

There was a post asking if anyone made their living with Imagine. Well, I do.
It's never the same from one week to the next, however. I've used Impulse
products since 1988. Some recent work includes a medical animation that I
completed in three days. An Alias/SGI animator was not able to complete this
animation after seven weeks. It involved an arterial stent that is inflated
by a balloon. Very detailed, very difficult. I did get some help from Morphus
on that one. I also did an animation of a lottery hopper, with 36 brush mapped
balls in a rotating glass hopper. The camera was up close and panned from left
to right while the balls bounced around inside. This without collision
detection, gravity, or kinematics! How? Well, good graphics software, like a
good hooker, can fake it when it really counts. And without going into a lot
of detail, it involved building a cylindrical matrix the same size and shape
of the hopper, and keeping track of the balls position to avoid having them
go "through" each other and other potential problems. Using Forms, I have
been able to do some amazing 3D morphs. A meat cleaver to a serving platter,
a banana to an apple, and I have morphed a lot of 3D text. I do not think
there is anything on any platform to compare to the Forms editor. Other
features, like having textures and brushes with their own axis allow for
having two or more objects with the same spatially concurrent surface coloring.
I have made and sold large format prints, and have done exhibitions where
attendees swore they were looking at workstation imagery.
   Imagine may have some deficiencies, but all in all it is a very powerful
program. I have Real 3D 1.4. I may upgrade to 2.x, but it won't be to replace
Imagine. Just like Image F/X and ADPro can complement each other, Imagine
can be supplemented by other rendering software. As far as 2.9 is concerned,
it is indeed buggy as hell. But it has some really nifty features, like
being able to tween States, and the ability to morph Particles. Fog has
been fixed, and though there is no direct support for "atmospherics", you
can place Fog objects within each other for some amazing effects. I have
been able to make some neat 3D cloud bank-like objects with morphing particles
that were made as Fog objects.
   So I think Impulse deserves some relief from all this bashing. If you want
click-an-effect-button software that emulates something that was on the tube
last week, it's available. But Imagine can do things that no other program
can, and has had that ability for three years. It is very easy to do things
with Imagine that have not been seen before, once you open your mind.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 17   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: My 2 cents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 94 0:35:33 EST

Hi Greg-  I have been using
turbo silver and imagine for over 5 years now. I love imagine and have done
some great stuff with it always enjoying the time spent with it. It is
because I love imagine so much that I wish to see it evolve and keep pace
with the competition. Not because of some kind of competitive hang up
or the like, I simply need features to make my work look better. Stuff
like bones and motion blur are often needed.

My largest complaint about Impulse as a company is the fact that they are
not always honest with their users. Prime example. Over 2 years ago I received
a newsletter informing me that 3.0 would be availible in a few months.
since then at least 2 newsletters have followed making the same claim
yet it was only december that 2.9 was released, NOT EVEN 3.0! 2 year
old bugs (slice, fog,...) still exist. I have put off purchasing and learning
another product as it always seems that imagine3 is 'right around the corner'

>
>
> LACK OF RESPONSIVENESS FROM IMPULSE:
>
>   What???  Call up Impulse and speak to the President, Mike Halvorson.
> Address your concerns, ideas, critiques, etc.  He's more than willing to
> listen and help.  But have some intelligence when doing it, and have your
> facts straight before making vacuous comments.
>   I just did.  I made some suggestions and found out that they will be/are in
> Imagine 3.0.  What other company can you call up and speak to the
> President, and be taken seriously.

I've spoken with mike often, and always enjoy speaking with him. He is
usually a straight forward kind of guy. I like that.

> ____________
> LENSE FLARE:
>
>   Hey, _I_ would like to have it.  And I will in 3.0.  The lensflare texture
> is here to placate us for now.  3.0 Features a Global FX, post-processing
> facility that will add motion blur, lens flares, AFTER the images are
> rendered. In the future additional effects could be plugged in.

sounds interesting.

> ________________________________
> LACK OF FEATURES and STAGNATION:
>
>   Come on people, you need your heads examined if you adhere to this.
> Just because you would like _A_ feature thats not there yet, don't
> condemn Imagine. Learn to adjust!  Use something else to produce the
> required effect.

Well, there has been a fair amount of stagnation here. Two years IS a long
time to go without even releasing a bug fix.

> ______________
> AREXX SUPPORT:
>
>    Gee, a few people that learned how to program scripts, who sit around
> playing on the computer all day WANT it.  WOW, some incredible magic will
> occur if there was an AREXX port.  Gimme a break.

Arexx is a useful tool for integrating amiga software. In many cases
programming skill/script writing is not needed to exploit it. Take a look
at all of the third party addon's for a program like adpro. Arexx makes this
possible. I don't need to write a single line of 'code' to make MultiFrame
do it's thing.

> _________________________
> NOT SUPPORTING THE AMIGA:
>
>    Excuse me!?  Impulse has supported the Amiga since Day 1.  They are
> still supporting the Amiga while others have abandoned it.  Perhaps the
> real reason of Impulse & Imagine bashing comes from an insecurity of
> _somee_ Amiga users that their computer is dying out and they want some
> whiz bang piece of software to save it.  By the way, I own an A1000, A2000 and
> an IBM486DX2/66mhz.  So this is not an anti-Amiga paragraph.

I think the lack of amiga support statement is not aimed at their support of
the platform but instead, the lack of support of amiga OS features that
make a piece of software more valuable. I'd like to have a file requestor
that sorts files alphabetically. this is not a lot to ask, especially when
the OS provides this service. In the msDOS worlds folks are used to non
standard interfaces and the like. each software developer has rolled their own.
This is not necessary on the amiga. The Display database is another heavy
hitting OS feature that all modern amiga software should support.

> ________
> REAL 3D:
>
>   If you want it, buy it.   You own more than one paint program don't you?
> But before comparing REAL 3D to Imagine, _use_ REAL 3D and THEN comment
> intelligently as to the differences between the two.

Agreed. Although I eagerly await the release of imagine 3.0, and will use
it EXTENSIVELY when it arrives, I think it's time I started to learn another
program like Real 3d.

> ________
> ESSENCE:
>
>   It has been said that Impulse crippled Apex Software & their Essence line.
> Geeze people, Imagine is the main piece of software that Apex is plugging
> into, not the other way around.  Impulse needed to make changes to enhance
> Imagine.  Even Imagine 2.0's texture won't work with Imagine 2.9/3.0.
> In your eyes, maybe texture tacking wasn't worth the loss of a 3rd party
> add on.  To me it was.

The Brush tacking feature has nothing to do with the change in the texture
file format. As I don't program for impulse, nor do I have access to their
source, I am only taking an educated guess here. Take a look at your 2.0
textures. compare the file size to the same 2.9 textures. they're the same.
If you run a DIFF program you'll find only a byte or so has changed. The
reader can draw their own conclusions here. I'm personally baffled.

>
> [e-mail]
>
> P.S.  I have no affiliation with Impulse, other than a user of their
>       product.
>
Same here.
                    |
steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 18   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 01:33:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ONE FROM IMPULSE INC.


O.k. I am not trying to be offensive here. Just making some points, so
take it easy folks...  I've been reading this list for some time now, and
have made a few conclusions of my own.

> >     I would ask people to start acting with a degree of class.  Your
> > messages reach me and in most cases they are offensive, not helpfull.  We
> > are not in some contest for a position,

Whether Impulse realizes it or not, they are in competition with other
companies for our money.  Sooner or later, each one of us has to decide
whether we will purchase or not.

> > we are trying to create a lasting
> > relationship with users who realize the complexity of what we are doing and
> > realize that with the help they offer we will deliver the goods.

O.K, I can understand that a little.  Folks, those of you who program will
understand this.  No matter what anyone says, making a large piece of
software like this is NOT a simple task.  Lets not hear 'other companies
are doing it...'  Keep in mind that while Impulse has the capabilities and
knowlege to go out and do something like Wavefront Tech did on the SGI
with some of their software.  It WOULDN'T BE IMAGINE.  I for one dont want
to have to learn everything over again.  When you upgrade the software,
you have to leave it at least a little bit like the old stuff, or you'll
piss off your customers.  However, there are a few things which should be
included.  I'll talk about these later.

> > It is far
> > eaiser to light a candle than to curse the darkness.  Much of the
> > complaints or bitches that I see here are people yelling in the dark.  Turn
> > on the lights, if you have questions and concerns, call me, I am not too
> > big to take your call and listen to your concerns, or drop me a message on
> > CIS I will be glad to respond.

Ok, as we know, you at imagine will eventually see this, so lets hit the
flood lights.


> Tom Setzer - self appointed critic writes:

> How about releasing the texture and effects information?  Atleast release it
> to Apex so they can get Essence 1 & 2 & pro working.
>
> How about an 040 optimized version of Imagine?
>
> Will you ever support the display database?
>
> Will you ever support the standard interfaces(although I don't mind what
> is there now, I've seen this posted several times)?
>
> Is there a plan for bug fix revisions ie 2.91a? 3.01? etc?
>
> Is there a plan for fixing bugs?  eg slice? etc...

Ok, heres a user with some questions.  Now heres a suggestion.  I realize
(as should all who subscribe to this list...)  Whatever 3.0 will have is
pretty much already set in stone.  They are talking about releasing it in
just over three weeks, so this tells me that they probably have pretty
much gotten it finished and If it doesn't have what you want in it...  You
wont see it this version no matter how much you complain.

We could get constructive here tho...   As many discussions we have had on
everything... there has never been a true compilation of what the users on
here want to see.  So.  heres my suggestion. Wait till you see what 3.0
has, you can't change that now anyway.  Then, evaluate it, decide what you
want to see (as users) and find one person here to post the ideas to.
That person will compile a list, sort of a vote thing... Listing ideas and
how popular they are.  This could be done rather transparently if you
email directly to the person you pick to do the voting list

This way, the people at Impulse will get an idea of what people want, we
won't have a tangled mess on the mailing list with twenty people quoting
an entire previous message text with "I'd like to see this too" at the bottom.

I'd say it's probably too late for changes on 3.0.  But this might entice
them to come up with 4.0 someday...

Also, I dont think that compiled in this way, it could possibly be
construed as bashing or lacking class, so if they then choose to not
respond, or to respond negatively, then everyone will know where they stand.

OK, I promised I'd mention a few things that I feel are musts, thus
touching on points made by folks in earlier posts.  040 optimization...I'd
say at least 10% (probably more..) of the people who use their amiga for 3d
graphics have an 040.  Note I did not say 10% of all amiga users.  Heres
what I dont understand.  If there can be an integer version, and a FP
version, why not an 040 optimized version?

Arexx.  MANY MANY people feel strongly on this.  Myself included. If my
word processor can have an arexx port (and just about every other program
on my system)  Then my 3d software better have it.  Of course the point
has been made...Hobbiers dont need arexx.  Well, maybe we arent using it
for a hobby, maybe we are just a poor college student.  I Want AREXX!  I
think if we did the voting thing...  this would be in the top 3.  If not #1.

I dont really care about the file requestor, I mean, if it works, fine.
it's when I can't make it do something that should have been a standard
feature, then I get upset.

Enough whining, If we want them to make it the way we want it, lets get
organized, and tell them in a nice way, just WHAT we want.  They can't
disagree with that.  And who knows, they may even appreciate it.


This was my first official post to the IML (as you can see, I've been
saving it up....)  :)

     /----------------------------------------------\
    /    ///  Steve Lopez -> [e-mail]    \
   /    ///    Student at -> Art Institute of Seattle \
  / \\\///        Program -> Audio & Video Production  \
  \  \XX/ `040'  Computer -> Amiga 2000 GVP040'33 DCTV /
   \                       : DSS8+ 9megs Flicker fxr  /
    \ "I can do that..."   : Midi DJ500c Supra 14.4k /
     \----------------------------------------------/
      Is there anyone else that thinks that broad
      Kennedy on MTV should be burned at the stake?
      And why does she have to be the VJ on the best
      music?  Yecch.




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 19   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 02:53:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: My 2 cents




> ______________
> AREXX SUPPORT:
>
>    Gee, a few people that learned how to program scripts, who sit around
> playing on the computer all day WANT it.  WOW, some incredible magic will
> occur if there was an AREXX port.  Gimme a break.

Hmm, have you ever used AREXX?

I find it nice to be able to pass frames from one program, to another to
be processed (NTSC Color Limiting is a good example of this)

Funny that if it's only a few people want it, and only people who sit
around playing with their computer all day, why is it that Imagine, and Dpaint
are the only _Serious_ programs I own that DON'T have it?  Cripes!  Even
my word processor has an arexx port.

I suspect from your tone that you have either never used AREXX, or have
never done a project large enough to warrant creating a AREXX script.
Some of us have, and do frequently.  And no, magic doesn't just occur, but it
certainly makes it easier for me to create some magic if I have the tools.

Remember, if you dont like AREXX, dont use it.  Leave the rest of us alone.

Steve.





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 20   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 05 Jan 94 12:41:53 +0000
From: [e-mail]

Hi,
   I think that this is a good idea. I have Imagine 3.0 on order through
Amiga Format and will compile a list of "features" that I would like to
see implemented.
    As you can see from my sig I am one of the 10% with 040s. From
what I have heard this will speed up rendering time quite a lot. All they
would need to do is compile it with Monte LeCoupe's math040.lib and it
should work much faster. One speed test program is reputed to run over
twice as fast with this library.
    Unfortunately, I only have GCC compiler which I am having trouble
with integrating this library so I can't verify this.

                    regards,

                    Stephen.

****************************************************************************
*Stephen J Gowdy                *A4000/040* High Energy Physics Group,     *
*Bitnet: GOWDY AT GWIA          *460 MB HD* Dept Of Physics & Astronomy,   *
*DecNet: 20075::GOWDY           *6MEG RAM!* University of Glasgow.         *
*InterNet: [e-mail]*It moves!* Tel: [phone] E:5894 *
****************************************************************************


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 21   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 94 06:57:57 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: (Vertex) alternative modellers
    <[e-mail]>


I wrote:

> Yup; I just found it too, and ordered it yesterday.  You can send away
> for it to The Art Machine:

Ooops, as Glen L pointed out, I neglected to mention how much.  When I
ordered it last week, their price for direct sales was $79.99, which
included shipping.  The suggested retail price was $120, or something
like that (I've forgotten the exact amount).

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 22   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 15:04:44 +0100
        "alternative modellers" (Jan  4,  2:12pm)
Subject: Re: alternative modellers

On Jan 4,  2:12pm, William V. Swartz wrote:
> Subject: alternative modellers
> Also, I vaguely recall a modeller that supported X-Specs glasses but can't
> seem to find it.  Anyone know of this or any other alternative modellers?

It is called Matrix Modeler.

Robin



--
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----------
Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer            Email: [e-mail]
Silicon Graphics Inc.                Vmail: 5-9389
Mediterranean Distribution Territory        Tel:   [phone]
Lausanne, Switzerland                Fax :  [phone]






+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 23   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 94 07:27:15 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: My 2 cents


> I've been on the IML for a few months now.  Watched messages with flames,

Hmm.  There _have_ been many posts of the sort, "Imagine should have
added this feature".  I'm probably guilty of this.  But I think these
happen because we want Imagine to get better, not because we just like
to complain.  Also, the existence of competing products which already
have these features gives Imagine a tough act to follow.  But I don't
think that complaining about certain missing features is "flaming".

[lens flair]
>   Hey, _I_ would like to have it.

Me too :-)  Just think: if Imagine had ARexx, you'd have it by now :-)

>    Gee, a few people that learned how to program scripts, who sit around
> playing on the computer all day WANT it.  WOW, some incredible magic will
> occur if there was an AREXX port.  Gimme a break.

I disagree here.  ARexx isn't magic.  But it is a different *class* of
feature in that it allows either you or other companies to add feature
not there now, without updating Imagine itself.

I have maybe 8 hours per week to use my Amiga.  I want to make the most
of this time.  When Imagine lacks some feature and I have to work around
it in a cumbersome way which takes a lot of my time, then yes, I want
ARexx.  How many times have I spent ages doing the manual process of
copying attributes to other objects?  (Click..click..click..click...)
If I had ARexx, I could have, in maybe 1 or 2 minutes, written a script
to do it for me and save LOTS of time.

Having ARexx doesn't mean you have to program in it.  If it exists, you
can add features to your existing software by buying external ARexx
macros from another company (witness T-Rexx, or all the external support
for ADPro), or by finding them free on the net, or whatever.

It also means that somebody could have written a lens flair ARexx script
and posted it to the IML for everybody else to use.

> You own more than one paint program don't you?

Nope.

> Please direct flames, comments, kudos directly to me, and not to the IML.

I'll direct this to the IML, thanks.  I hope its not a flame (its not
intended to be), and I hope that one can disagree without coming across
as flaming.  If we restrict the IML to only posts praising Imagine, or
only posts which Impulse might agree with, I don't think it'll be very
useful any more...

But also, I've spent a lot of time harping on the lack of usability
features in Imagine, so I'll be quiet for a while.  Impulse, if they're
listening, should have got the point by now, and either they'll add
these or they won't.  Its up to them what to add.  Its up to us whether
to buy something else if we want things not in Imagine.  That's the way
a free market works.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 24   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 94 08:36:29 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
Subject: ANOTHER FROM IMPULSE


    Lets first address Essence Textures.  We had to change the file
structure of Imagine objects so that we could do things like Brush and
Texture tacking.  This facilitated a major change in how things are done,
et al the Essence Textures don't work anymore.  I realize that most people
won't believe this but we do not have a desire to break any product that
you the user finds valuable.  However, becuase you the user wanted these
other features of tacking, we had to make the changes that we indeed did
make.  SO, where does that leave the Essence textures, Simply put, in the
next couple of weeks we will release for public use the file formats of the
objects as well as the information for Apex and others to generate textures
that will work with Imagine.  I assume that Apex will augment their product
and make appropriate offerings regarding upgarding your present texture
base.  I have no control over the process they will use to get these new
textures to you.  They may charge you for them and they may give them to
you free.  That is of course between you and Apex.

    We have not released the file formats as of yet due to the fact
that things have continued to change almost daily.  We keep thinking of
things to do which affect the object format.  You will see that if we
release the information before the file format is set, it would cause an
even greater problem for you and Apex if they decided to push ahead and do
the worng thing by being premature.

    I have taken alot of flak on this issue about the Essence Textures.
 It seems to me that people think the worst and dont consider that there
might be a resonable purpose behind what we are doing.  I know that there
are many who are emotionally involved in this issue and I would hope that
they now realize that we are doing what is right so that we dont cause even
further frustration for you the user.

    Imagine 3.0 is just around the corner and as such we know that you
will be thrilled with the work that we have done.  The worst problem we
face at Impulse is trying to figure out how long it is going to take to
invent things. Imagine what the guy who had to make the first piano face
when the king came to he or she and said, Hey when is that thing going to
be done.  He probably scratched his head and his bottom, picked a date and
was late.  However the piano has made its mark on history.  Maybe Imagine
will make a small mark as well, but only with the continued support of
users like yourself who recognize our devotion to all users.

    Impulse was started on the premise that we are listening.  We still
are and hope that you feel good about letting us know what you want.

    Wishing you a great New Year and an amazing Imagination.....

    Mike


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 25   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 07:50:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: My 2 cents

Excuse me, Greg, but before you tell someone to get their own facts straight,
get YOUR facts straight.  I did not CLAIM that the IML slowdown was due to
eroding user base, I ASKED if that was the case.  Audacious?  I think not.

For the rest of the IML:

I have invested many hundreds of hours in learning Imagine.  I want the
program to succeed.  I have seen other companies go down the tubes not
only because the product isn't improved, but because the customers are
mistreated.

Greg asked how many other companies you can call and talk to the president.
LOTS!  Especially if you are having problems that are not being resolved,
and are a paying customer!  Especially if the company is a small one!

The major problem with Impulse (and I mean this as constructive criticism,
not a flame) is that their customer support is inconsistent.  At times it
can be great, and at times it sucks.  Unfortunately, Impulse has not (in
my experience) done anything to follow up on unsatisfactory customer contacts.

I have found the subscribers on this List to be far more responsive in
their support than the people from whom I bought the software.

A responsive software developer solicits bug reports, acknowledges receipt
of the reports, fixes the bugs, notifies the customers of the fix, and
SHIPS THE FIXED PRODUCT.  If the bug can't be fixed, they at least notify
customers of the problem, and devise a work-around.  The same goes for
requested improvements and new features.

Impulse has NOT been doing this.  Yes, you can code great software (and
Imagine IS a great program for the price!) without doing this.  But it's
no way to keep your customers. Criminy, they haven't even been getting
their NEWSLETTER to the customers!

Communication's the key, people.  Convince your customers that they ARE
being listened to, and keep them informed about what's going on.  Imagine
is a good enough product that people have bought vapor for years to
support it, but sooner or later even fanatical loyalty wears thin.

I've heard, through various sources, that Impulse will be improving both
their customer support staff and the frequency of their upgrades.  I
sincerely hope so.

Impulse needs to get a professional attitude about customer service. Period.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 26   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 12:11:46 +0100
From: [e-mail] (Andreas Gutzwiller)
Subject: RETINA support

Do anybody know if Imagine 3.0 supports grafic-boards?


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 27   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 10:07:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ANOTHER FROM IMPULSE

And a big round of applause for Mike Halvorson!  Thanks for the
information, I'm sure it will reduce a lot of the flames around here.

BTW, if you could post more about development issues like this, you would
get lots more positive suggestions, fewer flames, and probably less
nagging about release dates, too.  You've got a huge pool of creative
talent to draw from in this List.  Keep us informed, and you can benefit
from our combined efforts.

Keep up the good work--I'll vote with my checkbook.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 28   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Proposed letter
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 12:55:11 -0600 (CST)

About the letter I proposed...

I had proposed such a thing on the condition that Impulse was not seeing
this mailing list.  If Mike is reading this, well, it's not really
necessary.

BTW, said letter was *not* meant as a flame!  It was meant to say, there
are some features (ARexx!) that I really need with a program... and I
dislike bugs as much as the next guy.

My apologies to you, Mike, if my words were too harsh; as I said, I really
*do* like Imagine, and want to see it improve... ;)

As for my position as a user, I am currently using it as a "hobby", but am
on the verge of getting a few animation jobs as a direct result of this
hobby.  I am doing it as a hobby with the intent to do it as a job... and
I think I've found a way to send Imagine anims to the Toaster... ;)

Someone asked why one would need ARexx.  I can answer that easily.  The one
job that I have done (as a 'present' to my old high school) involved motion
blurring and a flash-like explosion.  I had to manually load each frame of
the animation into ImageFX, blur it, and later overlay and blend the
explosion.  If Imagine had an ARexx port, I could have exported each frame
from Imagine directly into ImageFX, picked a direction, had the script blur
it and then mix in a proper amount of the explosion frame.  I would have
only needed to be there to tell the script which way to blur.

Anyway... my $.08 (inflation, ya know.)
--
     Gordon Schumacher

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "I woke up on the wrong side of bed this   _@_      |
|     Urbana     morning... underneath it!"               /   \     |
|                    -Jason Freeburg                     | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/

P.S. This message was made from 100% pure BunnyHunter Labs Flame-Away
     No-Burn InsulMat.  New location opening in Boulder, CO soon!


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 29   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Mike McCool)
Subject: Re: ANOTHER FROM IMPULSE
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 11:30:32 -0800 (PST)

Hey Dave,
    Thanks for responding.  And I have to admit, the flack
about Essense seems way off base.  You make an upgrade, why
shouldn't the people who write peripheral software be expected to
upgrade accordingly.
    I think the problem for me was the bait of an amazingly
improved Imagine which I swallowed a little prematurely.  I said
in another post privately that I would have preferred to wait
another year if necessary than to have had to feel as if I was
being pacified with 2.9.
    The problem's not your end, ultimately, but mine/ours.
We were led to expect 3.0 by now, and as it hasn't happened, it
makes 2.9 look a little feeble.  I personally LOVE 2.9, if for no
other reason than that when I start moving the camera around in
Stage, I can still see my objects in the perspective window.
That's fabulous.
    But you see what's happened:  you've let our impatience
force you to rush out a product that's not exactly complete.  I
think my strategy would have been to be more cagey.  Just keep
reminding us that the upgrade is on its way, but that you'd
rather wait to release it till it's right.  And if the customers
started whining about the time lag, I'd remind them it ain't easy
to make a miracle.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 30   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 13:01:50 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: mikes posts

As to the first post No comment!

    The second post shows a great improvement in response. I would like
to thank mike for his comments and realizing he is busy appreciate his efforts
here on the IML. My only dissapointment is that he has not commented on arexx
or the Amiga OS. As I have read through this flurry of feelings here most if
not all are based on how well Imagine will conform to amiga developmental
guidelines.
    Again I praise mikes second response and believe if he can keep
his customers informed impulse may very well become all he hopes for.

    A suggetion: Perhaps someone would sponsor an imagine rendering
             contest and everyone could see just what can be
             produced with imagine even as it is and focus on
             some success for a while.

                            Render Ho!
                               Lesk


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 31   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Mike McCool)
Subject: Re: My 2 cents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 11:55:36 -0800 (PST)

Hey Greg,
    You're right to be weary of the inflammatory tone of the
last few days.  But as a relative newcomer to IML, I can't quite
listen to that 'mental masturbation' jibe without getting my
hackles up a bit.
    This flurry of flames is evidence of a very excited group
of imagine users who have a forum and aren't ashamed to use it.
But by and large, what's come off this newsgroup is a body of
helpful information more substantial than anything I've ever
found elsewhere.
    I recently posted a query about how to improve my Mt Fuji
object, and was frankly swamped with helpful suggestions.  I
couldn't believe how open people were with their support.
    So if I have to swallow a few flames, the body of
nutritious information more than makes up for it.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 32   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 05 Jan 94 17:07:01 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)
Subject: Soap attribute.back


 [ 4 Jan 94 ] [ Dale R Rogers -> me ]

 DRR>  I would like it.  Did you simply assign the attribute to a 1/2
 DRR>  sphere?

Nope a complet Sphere..

 DRR>  Also,  what is the uuencoded file, a stage file, image file, etc.?

An attribute for the Detail editor.

   _:        So/ren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
   |  A2000c/68030/68882/9/345/33Mhz   /_______\                    |
... He was so narrow-minded he could see through a keyhole with two eyes.
-Via DDDGate @ 2:230/418.0  DDDGate 1.42 (30.09.93)


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 33   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 05 Jan 94 17:09:43 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)
Subject: Soap attribute


 [ 4 Jan 94 ] [ Mike McCool -> me ]

 MM>  By all means, share your attributes with us for that soap bubble.  I
 MM> made a kind of clear glass bubble a year ago that I was pretty happy
 MM> with--but I'd love to see your version. Please type out your attributes.

POST I Damned.... :D  we need action in on the list...
Way to few Imagineers in here..

Anyone interested in sharing UUencodeed Imagine Attributes, in E-mail &
Netmail ?

   _:        So/ren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
   |  A2000c/68030/68882/9/345/33Mhz   /_______\                    |
   .                                                                .
... "You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't."
-Via DDDGate @ 2:230/418.0  DDDGate 1.42 (30.09.93)


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 34   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 05 Jan 94 17:05:22 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)
Subject: Soap 2.nd time.


Hi fellow Imigeneers..  (I invented this word !!!)

After i've got a few requests on the attributes for my Soap Bouble, here it
is... :

Make a Sphere.... "no matter what size but lets make it 50 :D"

COLOR  REFLECT  FILTER  SPECULAR
R 250    10      192      255
G 215    10      162      245
B 225    10      133      238

Dithering     Hardness    Roughness  Shiniess  Index of refraction
   0        245 (Or less)     0         0            1.08

Then Add a Pastella Texture.
With the following datas.

102.333374   100.00
  0.0          0.0
255.0        255
  0.0        180
100.0         80
  0.0        110
255.0          0.0
100.0          0.0

Now, try render it, and remember to put a object behind, and try to make
several copies, and make a complet BoubleBath :D

Happy Tracing...

Is this in general, when people post some attributes, they always write the
attributes instead of UUencode them ?

   _:        So/ren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
   |  A2000c/68030/68882/9/345/33Mhz   /_______\                    |
... Economy makes men independent.
-Via DDDGate @ 2:230/418.0  DDDGate 1.42 (30.09.93)


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 35   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 08:56:32 EST
From: [e-mail] (Graeme Mc Donough)
Subject: Imagine with digitisers


A constructive question....( not a bitch like I have been reading )

Does or will Imagine support Digitisers?
Can somebody ask or put this question on the appropriate list to be
sent to the Imagine guys for an answer..
Any feedback would help..


Thanks




/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-SUN
Graeme Mc Donough,
INTERNET: [e-mail]  (postmaster)
                                                                        ///
Monash University                                                      ///
Dpt of Earth Sciences                                                 ///
Clayton, Melbourne                                                \\\///
Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3168                                           \XX/
PHONE: [phone]
/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-TWIRL





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 36   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (William V. Swartz)
Subject: Thanks...
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 17:08:47 -0500 (EST)

Thanks to all that responded to my questions about alternative modellers.  I
now can order Vertex direct from the author, and have the name of the other
one as Animatrix Modeller which has the XSpecs support.  But the question of
usability remains...which is better?

Thanks to Mike at Impulse for posting some replies.  It is good to hear some
news without having to interupt his work day by calling him and asking him
the same questions 100 others asked.  I sit patiently and eagerly awaiting
3.0 like so many others without posting negative comments like some others
that haven't a clue what is happening at Impulse because they haven't called
to find out.  IMHO, one should know what is happening before flaming.  It is
one thing to post wants and wished for features, and quite another to bad
mouth a company for how it runs it's business.  Like bad TV, if you don't
like what is on, change the channel.  There are lots of choices.

Thanks to those that posted positive responses to all the negativity lately.
This is a new year and we should enter it with a revitalized attitude
instead of dwelling in the past.  It has been said before and it is worth
repeating...if you don't like the package get another one and move on and
clear the IML for the purpose for which it was created!

flames to: /your/mama/cuz/I/don't/care

  //
\X/ -BiL-
    [e-mail]             (See my 'Imagine'-ary signature below)


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 37   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 16:00:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Soap 2.nd time.

It's a good idea to type out the Attributes, since some people are using
the Amiga version and others are using the PC version.  Imagine 2.0 on the
PC does some annoying things to the RGB values in the Attributes editor if
you import an Amiga-built attribute.

Also, for those of us using more than one modeler/renderer, it's nice to
have values to type in the other software.

Anyone interested in collecting a library of interesting/useful Attributes?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 38   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 01:21:45 +0100
From: [e-mail]
Subject: aminet

Hi,
I've just finished Alain Prost's formula 1 car on Imagine. I haven't
got the textures (sponsors) yet, but it will come soon. I'd like to
upload it on an aminet site (such as wcarchive). Would anyone be interested
in my car ? How can I do to upload it ?
Stanis


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 39   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 05 Jan 1994 20:40:53 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: GVP A1230 T+ Explosions

Howdy All,

I have a very quick question.  I have a 1200 w/ the gvp 1230 turbo plus board.
The board has the 40 mz FPU and CPU with 4mb of ram.  The only difficulty that
I can report with this board is that the 030 keeps exploding.  Usually this is
a rare and horrible incident, however it has done it to me twice already, and I
can see no apparent solutions to the problem without voiding my warranty.  The
question is, has anyone else out there experienced problems with this board?
Does anyone know if GVP is online?  It is INHERENTLY frustrating.  I can render
next to nothing without the FPU or RAM, and happened (coincedentally) the very
same day I recieved my copy of the essence textures!  Well if you like ugly
checks, i guess it's ok...

I do make my existance from the amiga and imagine, and this boards' continued
failure is literally taking food from my mouth.  It's very cold in boston this
time of year.  Awaiting responses or suggestions,

Bob O'Connell
Massachusetts College of Art

PS:  Any hints on good looking three dimentional text?


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 40   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 5 Jan 94 20:58:00 EST
From: "Andrew Church" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: aminet

>I've just finished Alain Prost's formula 1 car on Imagine. I haven't
>got the textures (sponsors) yet, but it will come soon. I'd like to
>upload it on an aminet site (such as wcarchive). Would anyone be interested
>in my car ? How can I do to upload it ?

  To upload it, you just need to connect to an AmiNet site, go to the
"pub/aminet/new" directory, and put it there (remember to use binary mode!)
along with a readme file.  It will get moved to the proper directory before
long.

  As for interest, I'm not, but other people may have different opinions.

  --Andy Church



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 41   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Sebastien PERKINS)
Subject: ESSENCE
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 10:38:23 +0100 (MET)

About essence, for Imagine V3.0 ...

Over here in France, the guys who import Essence I and II have confirmed me that Apex IS modifiying them so that they can work for V3.0 !!!


Can anybody confirm THIS wonderful news !?!?!?!?


Seb



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 42   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Sebastien PERKINS)
Subject: RETINA
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 10:39:43 +0100 (MET)



I saw somebody on IML who asked the same question, so I would like to know if indeed IMAGINE V3.0 will support the Retina ?


Seb



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 43   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 06 Jan 94 12:12:06 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)
Subject: Attribute exchange


 [ 5 Jan 94 ] [ Doug Kelly <dakelly@CLA -> me ]

 DKd> Anyone interested in collecting a library of interesting/useful
 DKd> Attributes?

Yes i've got 524288 bytes of them, but how are we going to exchange them, i
will NOT type all of them.. !

   _:        So/ren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
   |  A2000c/68030/68882/9/345/33Mhz   /_______\                    |
   .                                                                .
... Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes.
-Via DDDGate @ 2:230/418.0  DDDGate 1.42 (30.09.93)


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 44   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 08:54:50 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
Subject: IMPULSE RESPONCE TO POST


Impulse sends this responce to Tom Setzer's post:

--------------------

Tom,
    I thought you request was very classy, However I hope my pointed
answers wont offend you but much of what you ask for has short and sweet
answers.

Essence Textures... Of course we will release to the Public Domain the
entire object format as well as Texture format so that Apex and anyone else
who wants can make textures for 3.0

040 Optimizing,  this was done on 1.0 I have no idea why people think it
was not.  We use a compiler that we had to fix in order to optimize the
code for the 040 but we did this years ago.  Someone has been spreading
this dumb rumor for some absurd reason that I cant figure.  SO the answer
is, Its done. ANd has been for some time.

    What is the DISPLAY DATATBASE ?

    Yeah we know that people want different file reqs, I suppose when
we have time to do this we will but we are too busy with other things like
BONES and Depth of Field or any number of other things that seem more
important.  I truly wish all we had to do was do new file reqs to make
people happy with the money they spend, somehow I think that this action
would not make everyone happy.

    BUGS, of course we are going to fix all that we are aware of and
the list is healty, some are bugs and others are just the way we did things
and users dont like them so we are changing them to meet the users need.

    Enforcer, we have run it and it causes some problems with the code
itself.  SOrry we cant take advantage of this code.  SOrry.

    Does this help,

    Mike


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 45   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
    id AA13433; Thu, 6 Jan 94 15:56:36 GMT
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 15:56:36 GMT
Subject: Re: Attribute exchange

>>>>> "Soren" == Soren Wind <[e-mail]> writes:

DKd> Anyone interested in collecting a library of interesting/useful
DKd> Attributes?
Soren> Yes i've got 524288 bytes of them, but how are we going to
Soren> exchange them, i will NOT type all of them.. !

    Well, if an ASCII version is required for exchange, pump them
through T3DLIB's "readwrite" first, and you will have an ASCII
version.  You can find T3DLIB on ftp.wustl.edu and ftp.luth.se under
/pub/aminet/gfx/3d.
                            -- Glenn


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 46   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 08:58:10 CST
From: [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
Subject: FROM IMPULSE TO IML READERS


Dave,

    Please post this for me.  Thanks
-----------------------------------------------------------------

    To all users of Imagine and members of the IML.

    Somewhere along the time line, it seems that some of you have
decided that Impulse has become the dark monster in the closet, not
intersted in what you have to say or the problems and bugs you have found
in Imagine.  Others it seems have possibly decided that we have some deep
dark agenda to bring stress to other vendors.

    Nothing could be further from the truth.  Impulse has a host of
people just like each of you who have devoted all of thier working time to
making exciting products for all of us to use.  We are so busy doing what
we do that we dont have time at the end of the day (around 3AM) to think of
nasty things to do to other people and most importantly to you.

    We exsist because you use our products, its not the other way
around.  We recognize that there is a wealth of talent and creativity out
there and you make things happen with the products that we make.  Many
times it does seem that when one express anger it is bourne out of desire
to have a better product from the maker of that product.  Imagine the
problem that CBM has or Microsoft.  Lost of people and not much time to
respond to anyone much less time to do the right thing.

    I want everyone to know that your complaints, and concerns and
suggestions are very important to us.  We desire to make a great products
for you to use, we are however hampered with the process of meeting
deadlines, which we never seem to do, adding new features which are harder
than you can Imagine .  Yet we beat each other over the head everyday
trying to figure out the BEST way to do things.

    As we see things today, 3D is not new, and what is now important to
us and we think to you is that you want more power, we want to give you
these new features and powers but not at the cost of making these new
features difficult to use. Imagine 3.0 is and shall be eaiser to use and
many times more powerfull than its previous versions.  We want you to make
animations quicker, this is feedback from the software, that feed back
can't and won't take forever it needs to be immediate.

    The manual must be more elegant and more useable, it is and you
will learn even more than what you know today,  because we found the right
person to do the job.

    For those who want to support us with suggestions, critical review
and complaints are encouraged to do so.  However, just like you we dislike
negative commentary meant only to expand ones own self worth, herein hidden
behind the keyboard and a modem.  Our continued success is directly related
to your support, without it the results are obvious.

    I think that the real problem lies in one simple fact, you are here
on Internet and I am not.  This is going to change.  We have aquired a link
directly to IN and will be looking at messages on a daily basis.  As time
permits we will respond to your requests.  You are encouraged to be blunt,
its your nickel.  It seems that no communication with the companies that
you deal with leads to, as Dennis Hoppers says, BAD THINGS MAN, BAD THINGS.

    When is Imagine 3.0 going to be done, this most likely is the
Number One question.

    I looks like that we will be done with code by the end of Jan, 1994
(not 95) it will take a couple of weeks to get the docs together and
printed.  Then we will send to present 2.9 owners thier new goodies.  It
will take another couple of weeks to get the retial version out there and
then guess what, we start all over again and start changing things again.

    Which brings up a major conversation in terms of how you get the
new code beyon 3.0.  So here is the question that you must deal with and we
look forward to your responses.

    During 1994 we anticpate several changes to Imagine 3.0.  Possibly
by the end of the year there could be Imagine 4.0.  It seems however that
trying to anticpate a date is foolish, so we aren't intersted in doing that
again.  We would like to do the following.

    YOU would purchase a service contract for $100.00.  During the 12
months from the date of purchase you will get from us at least four updates
to Imagine during that time.  If all works well at the end of that year, we
will have a new version of Imagine.  One that you helped to make a real
product by, testing the new features on a more timely basis and then
letting us know what you like or want changed.  ALso during this time we
will inform you by way of the newsletter what changes are being worked an
agenda of development.  If there rises from the user base a cry for
something that we have missed or omitted we will respond.

    This will do many things for both You and US.  The most important
of which is that you will be getting new software more often and not have
to wait such a protracted amount of time to use these new features.  As an
example, Particles were done many months ago. You could have been using
them and then letting us know what you liked or did not like.  To some
degree we have done this with 2.9.  Many of you have jotted down your notes
and bug finds and we have addressed some of the suggestions and all of the
bugs that you have told us about.  Yes we do fix bugs, contrary to what
some on this list have stated.

    This process of a Service contract has been brought up before and
most people are very excited about the process.  There are a few who have
said that this is just a ploy to get your money.  Well I suppose that the
money does have a major importance to any company, but it is not the
motivating factor, the reality is that we really want to decrease the
amount of time from invention to use and then the time needed to possibly
rethink or fix problems.

    SO please give this process some thought and drop me a line on CIS
or when we announce our new Mail Address here in IML  do so there.

    Impulse is posed and ready to move to the next level, a virtual
world of captivated immersion.  It does seem that we all have some very
exciting things to look forward to over the next few years.  Thanks for
your support and your concerns.  We are STILL listening.


    Have a Great New Year,

    Mike Halvorson


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 47   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 08:01:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Attribute exchange

>  DKd> Anyone interested in collecting a library of interesting/useful
>  DKd> Attributes?
>
> Yes i've got 524288 bytes of them, but how are we going to exchange them, i
> will NOT type all of them.. !
>

Would it be possible for you to upload an .lha archive, maybe with some
notes about the attributes, to wuarchive.wustl.edu?  I believe that's the
official FTP site for the IML.  Steve Worley has aleady uploaded one
collection, attribut.lha.

Sounds like you've collected a lot of work there.  I'm sure we'd all
appreciate the contribution!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------









+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 48   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 8:53:06 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Command CPU

Hello all Imagineers;
    Has anyone with Amigados 3.0 tried the cpu command?
I did and droppped a render from 1 hr 28 minutes to about 26 minutes by
setting all options on and aloowing it to move the rom into fastram.
Boy you should see the imagine under construction picture draw it is just
a blip and its there. There is only one small problem imagine crashes all
the time. I would be curious if anyone with a 4000 has has tried it or
what cache settings etc. might work best with imagine.

                        Render Ho!
                         Lesk


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 49   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
    id AA13423; Thu, 6 Jan 94 15:54:33 GMT
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 15:54:33 GMT
Subject: Re: ESSENCE

>>>>> "Seb" == Sebastien PERKINS <[e-mail]> writes:

Seb> About essence, for Imagine V3.0 ...  Over here in France, the
Seb> guys who import Essence I and II have confirmed me that Apex IS
Seb> modifiying them so that they can work for V3.0 !!!
Seb> Can anybody confirm THIS wonderful news !?!?!?!?

    As we have said in the past, but to reiterate since you asked,
we at Apex *intend* to support V3.0 when it comes out.  However, we
are just as much in the dark as you are about the final release.  We
have made several requests to Impulse for texture development
information for 3.0 (and ImaginePC 2.0, for that matter) and have
received zero information from Impulse to date.  And I mean never.  No
flame, just the facts.

    But as Mike Halvorsen posted recently, Impulse will not
release any information until they are confident that it will not
change, which sounds reasonable and is quite understandable.  We
therefore do not know yet what will be involved in porting to 3.0.
Only when we get some information (or 3.0 is released, whichever comes
first...probably the latter), will we understand what is involved, and
*then* be able to say definitively whether a port is possible and
worth our time.

                        -- Glenn Lewis
                    (un de los Tres Apex Amigos)

Disclaimer: I speak only unofficially for Apex Software Publishing.
If you want the official, final words on any Apex subject, you need to
receive them directly from the president, Steve Worley.  But the above
is what I know about the subject, and believe it to be accurate.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 50   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Attribute exchange
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 11:41:20 -0600 (CST)
X-Quote-Of-Day: "Repeat, we have normality.  Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."

> Yes i've got 524288 bytes of them, but how are we going to exchange them, i
> will NOT type all of them.. !

Why don't you upload the attrib. files to wuarchive?  I know that the PC
people would not be too happy, but it'd be a damn sight better than typing
them all out...!  ;-)
--
     Gordon Schumacher

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "I woke up on the wrong side of bed this   _@_      |
|     Urbana     morning... underneath it!"               /   \     |
|                    -Jason Freeburg                     | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 51   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 10:34:21 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)
Subject: FYI...


In case anyone is interested, there is gonna be a "How did they do that"
    show on the Polar Bears, on Thursday 1/27 on Channel 2 at 8PM.
    I think it'll be covering all four of the Coca-Cola spots that have
    been done.  I'm not sure how in depth it will go, but it should be
    interesting at the very least!

steveZ                 Rhythm & Hues, Inc.
celia![e-mail]
"That's not Art Linkletter, that's Mickey Mouse!"
            -Art Linkletter, Disneyland opening day



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 52   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: GVP A1230 T+ Explosions
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 11:45:23 -0600 (CST)

> PS:  Any hints on good looking three dimentional text?

Other than extruding?  Well, you can get a good bevelled effect by
extruding the text with a resize x and z... or did you mean the original
text?

For that, I generally use Pixel3D.  It does a much better job than Imagine
on tracing bitmaps and fonts.  Of course, that's in 2.0... who knows what
3.0 and its font support will do...
--
     Gordon Schumacher

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "I woke up on the wrong side of bed this   _@_      |
|     Urbana     morning... underneath it!"               /   \     |
|                    -Jason Freeburg                     | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 53   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 13:13:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Attribute exchange

On 6 Jan 1994, Soren Wind wrote:

>  DKd> Anyone interested in collecting a library of interesting/useful
>  DKd> Attributes?
>
> Yes i've got 524288 bytes of them, but how are we going to exchange them, i
> will NOT type all of them.. !

I take it that the bubble attribute uuencoded in a previous message was
created in Imagine 2.9 or that the Imagine 2.9PC has fixed the attribute
red-shift bug.  I say this because the bubble attribute worked fine for me
using Imagine 2.9PC.  LHA format on WUarchive is fine for me.  There are
DOS programs to handle that.  The only difficulty comes when the
filename/directory structure goes beyond 8 characters.  Manual adjustment
must be done.  So to be completely portable, I'd recommend that if you
could ensure the filenames are 8 characters or less, then all users of
Imagine could use them.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Cliff Lee
 [e-mail]
 "Everything will work out if you let it!" Cheap Trick




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 54   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 19:49:02 +0100
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Attribute exchange

>  DKd> Anyone interested in collecting a library of interesting/useful
>  DKd> Attributes?
>
> Yes i've got 524288 bytes of them, but how are we going to exchange them, i
> will NOT type all of them.. !
>  I'm sure we'd all
appreciate the contribution!

I agree... I would be glad to have a collection of attributes...
                        Stanis


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 55   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
Subject: Re: FROM IMPULSE TO IML READERS
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 13:13:06 CST

|its your nickel.  It seems that no communication with the companies that
|you deal with leads to, as Dennis Hoppers says, BAD THINGS MAN, BAD THINGS.

    Having your voice here to dispell rumors is welcome.

|    I looks like that we will be done with code by the end of Jan, 1994
|(not 95) it will take a couple of weeks to get the docs together and
|printed.

    I look forward to ordering my upgrade.

|    YOU would purchase a service contract for $100.00.  During the 12
|months from the date of purchase you will get from us at least four updates
|to Imagine during that time.  If all works well at the end of that year, we
|will have a new version of Imagine.  One that you helped to make a real
|product by, testing the new features on a more timely basis and then
|letting us know what you like or want changed.  ALso during this time we
|will inform you by way of the newsletter what changes are being worked an
|agenda of development.  If there rises from the user base a cry for
|something that we have missed or omitted we will respond.

    An excellant idea.  IT is a very common method of keeping the
    software upgraded and keeping users with the current code.  I will
    purchase a service contract without hesitation.

    I have been waiting for 3.0 to come out before I upgrade.  Due to
    the delivery slips, I feel more confident waiting on 2.0.  At
    least I know what I can do there and have Essence to help me.
    Once 3.0 is out and Essence is in the works, I'll upgrade.

    BTW.  Please don't take this as a flame; it is not intended as
    one.  Make the newletter more professional.  Every time I read it I
    feel as if you are talking to someone who is playing and not
    trying to produce professional results.  I am very serious
    about what I do and intend on moving into the professional realm
    with my animation soon.  The tone of the Impulse Newsletter does
    not instill me with confidence that Impulse takes the results of
    the program seriously.

    Case in point:
    Someone recently posted a message stating that Impulse views
    Imagine as a hobbiest's program.  If this is so, please inform me
    as such so I can move to a program that has a more serious goal to
    reach.  Judging by your recent posts, perhaps this is in error, or
    perhaps your views have changed.  If this was misinterpreted, or if
    your goals have changed, please modify the tone and content of your
    newsletter to address the professionals that use your program.
    Don't worry, I'm sure the users that aren't earning a living with
    it will enjoy reading it as well.  I like humor, but the newletter
    tends to approach the bizarre.

    Dale


        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 56   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 14:04:32 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Re: IMPULSE RESPONCE TO POST

First, thanks for taking the time to answer.  I (and I'm sure many others)
feel this REALLY makes a difference.

>
> Essence Textures... Of course we will release to the Public Domain the
> entire object format as well as Texture format so that Apex and anyone else
> who wants can make textures for 3.0

Great!  How about the Action editors FX format.  I'd really like to take a
crack at those.

>
> 040 Optimizing,  this was done on 1.0 I have no idea why people think it
> was not.  We use a compiler that we had to fix in order to optimize the
> code for the 040 but we did this years ago.  Someone has been spreading
> this dumb rumor for some absurd reason that I cant figure.  SO the answer
> is, Its done. ANd has been for some time.

Hmm.  This one puzzles me.  I was under the impression that code can be
optimized for the 040, that would actually cause an adverse or slower effect
on 030 and less.  From my understanding, there are 2 reasons for this: the
040s pipelining(which the 030 does as well, only differently); and the floating
point instruction set that is slightly different in the 040 than the 68881 or
68882.  That is why SAS has released an 040 optimizer and several other
companies have released 040 specific versions of their code.
>
>     What is the DISPLAY DATATBASE ?

Basically people would like to run things like the detail editor in resolutions
other than those you supply.  People with high res graphics cards could take
advantage of those high res modes, allowing for finer detail, and a nicer
look.  I think the Display Database is an operating system feature that allows
programs to take advantage of what ever res the user wants to use.  3.0 or
greater I think.  I posted it since so many people have asked about it.  People
have even gone as far as doing a binary edit on Imagine to get higher
resolutions.  Its in the FAQ for the IML, to give you an idea of how many
people would like this feature.

>
>     Yeah we know that people want different file reqs, I suppose when
> we have time to do this we will but we are too busy with other things like
> BONES and Depth of Field or any number of other things that seem more
> important.  I truly wish all we had to do was do new file reqs to make
> people happy with the money they spend, somehow I think that this action
> would not make everyone happy.

I'd rather have Bones, myself.
>
>     BUGS, of course we are going to fix all that we are aware of and
> the list is healty, some are bugs and others are just the way we did things
> and users dont like them so we are changing them to meet the users need.

Great!  Are these to be in 3.0?


>     Does this help,

Yes.  Again, thank you.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 57   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 13:35:02 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)
Subject: The Bears...


Ooops!  Dale and Rick both made me aware of the fact that my channel 2
    isn't the same as yours :)
The show is "How did they do that?"  Which showcases special effects
    from movies and commercials.  The network is CBS.

Sorry about that!

steveZ                 Rhythm & Hues, Inc.
celia![e-mail]
"That's not Art Linkletter, that's Mickey Mouse!"
            -Art Linkletter, Disneyland opening day



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 58   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 15:18:03 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Attribute exchange



> >  DKd> Attributes?
> > Yes i've got 524288 bytes of them, but how are we going to exchange them, i
> > will NOT type all of them.. !
> >  I'm sure we'd all
> appreciate the contribution!

I agree (I have a few to contribute also).  I also have a suggestion.
Actually several.

First, if you upload an archive containing attribute files to wuarchive
(or elsewhere), it should say what it requires.  Some attribute files
might use Essence textures (mine do), and some might use Imagine 3.0
textures, and I doubt everyone has access to all of those.  It'd
probably save time for folks if they could read up front that "these
textures require Essence II" and skip it if they don't own Essence II.

It might also be useful to insert a note about object scale.  For
example, I have an excellent "rock" attribute using 3 Essence textures,
but it only "works" on objects in a certain size range - else the
features become too big or too small and you have to resize them.

There is another idea taken from the texture examples shipped with
Essence-II.  It turns out that, due to excellent design on the part of
the folks who did IFF back in 1985, a file with a superset of the
information you want can be used just like the exact file you want.
(For example, if you are trying to load merely a palette, you can load a
whole picture, and IFF will automatically pick the palette out of it).

What this means for us is that you can make a flat plane *object* file
(not attribute file) containing your attribute.  A user can use "load
attribute" in Imagine and load this *object* just like it was an
attribute file, because it *contains* attribute info.  This way, its
easy for users to set up a simple render to view your attribute in
whatever resolution and color mode they want, yet it is as easy to use
the attribute file as if it was generated by "save attribute" instead of
"save object".

Last, it'd be nice to have a directory specifically for these attributes
instead of having them sprinkled all around.

Just some ideas,

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 59   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Vertex modeller
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 94 15:15:00 PST


Regarding the trees in the Vertex 2.0 demo, there are some in the objects
directory, one in Imagine format.  You can read this into Imagine and render
it.  Don't know if Vertex 2.0 is available commercially yet, supposed to be
around $150 US.  You could call Alex and he might end up talking to you.  He
is also on this mailing list occasionally.
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
Subject: Vertex modeller
Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1993 7:45AM


After someone mentioned this on the IML a few months ago, I finally got
around to FTP'ing the Vertex demo.  I must say, it looks *very* nice.  I
only played with it for maybe 15 minutes, but as a modeller it looks
like it blows away Imagine's modeller in pretty much every regard
imaginable.  It'll read+write Imagine files, Caligari, Lightwave, and a
bunch of others I forgot.

Anyway, I'm looking for more information on this program.  The demo
archive gave an address, but didn't have a price or anything else.

  - How much is Vertex?  I don't need an exact price, just a general
    range.

  - Does anyone have experience using it to build Imagine files?  It
    looks like it supports Imagine attributes, hierarchies, etc, but you
    have to assign the brushmaps manually when you get the objects into
    Imagine.  But since the demo version has save disabled, I couldn't
    really see how well it works.

  - The demo has a menu item for changing the standard view from
    wireframe to solid rendered.  However, this didn't seem to do
    anything.  Is there some trick I'm missing?

If the price is reasonable, I'll probably end up getting this.  If I do,
I'll post something about how it works with Imagine.

Anyway, here is a brief feature list which I got from my short trial of
the demo:

   * Custom primitives
   * beveling
   * Fractal trees defined by about 8-10 parameters or so.  They seemed
     nice, but I couldn't render them since you can't save in the demo
     version.
   * fractal displacement operators
   * fantastic real time response when editing.  It has the "feel" and
     response of the Caligari modeller.
   * There is some implication than you can actual edit in a filled
     polygon view, but I wasn't able to get it to work.
   * Lots of operators such as lathe, spin, extrude, etc.  In general
     they seemed much more powerful than the Imagine operations
     even where Imagine has any equivalent at all.
   * Some sort of spline object editing, but I didn't try it.
   * Some sort of "layers" like feature.
   * Standard OS file requesters (why can't Imagine do this??)
   * ARexx (yeah!) (again, why can't Imagine do this?).  There are some
     included examples of custom operations written in ARexx that come
     with the demo.

Since this thing has an ARexx port, it *would* be possible to connect it
to Imagine rather transparently, except that Impulse has yet to give us
an ARexx port in Imagine.  Sigh.  But at least it has the ability to
create custom operations if you need to, which is something I have
wanted many times in Imagine.  Anyway, it blows away the Imagine 2.0
detail editor, and I'm about 99.9% sure it'll also blow away the Imagine
3.0 detail editor too.  As long as I can be assured this works well with
Imagine, then I'm sold...

   - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 60   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Diamonds in Manure
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 94 16:06:00 PST


Ah, IML!
To what can I compare thee?
 Diamonds in a manure heap!
Yes, the treasure is almost free,
yet, mayhaps,
the cost of digging is too steep!


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 61   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 18:48:57 EST
From: "W. Bruce Moore, Engineering for Diverse Systems" <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: IMPULSE RESPONCE TO POST

Mike wrote:
>  "Yeah we know that people want different file reqs...
   [ stuff deleted ]
>  I truly wish all we had to do was do new file reqs to make
>  people happy..."

Proving once again that Impulse is listening.  It's just a shame
they aren't *hearing*!   People do not want different file reqs, we
want *STANDARD* file reqs.  Please do not invent another new file
requester, USE THE ONE THAT'S BUILT INTO THE OPERATING SYSTEM!
The ASL req is quite good, but more importantly the system provides
hooks to allow transparent substitution by an alternate file req of
the user's choice (such as Magic File Requester).  Rolling your own
file req defeats this very useful feature.


As for the ever shifting object and texture formats, we can only
hope that Impulse will finally incorperate the necessary structures
to ensure that future extensions may be added without trashing all
external interfaces (again).  After all, this is a "mature" release
of their *third* generation of similar 3D rendering products.  They
must know by now that there will always be a need for changes to
implement new features, but they should also accept responsibility
for maintaining backward compatibility within published interfaces.

I don't mean for this to sound like a flame, but these are things
which should be obvious to anyone who writes software professionally.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 62   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: IMPULSE RESPONCE TO POST
Date: Thu,  6 Jan 94 16:37:19 PST

>Impulse sends this responce to Tom Setzer's post:
>--------------------
>........
>040 Optimizing,  this was done on 1.0 I have no idea why people think it
>was not.  We use a compiler that we had to fix in order to optimize the
>code for the 040 but we did this years ago.  Someone has been spreading
>this dumb rumor for some absurd reason that I cant figure.  SO the answer
>is, Its done. ANd has been for some time.
>........
>        Mike

   Mike, I've been a Silver/TSilver/Imagine user since almost the beginning,
and there are many things that people complain about that are not
particularly justified. But, in this case, I think they are. One of the
prime indicators that a program is not properly '040 optimized is when it
generates interrupts when processing heavily. Imagine generates TONS of
interrupts while rendering. This manifests itself as a mouse pointer that
moves in a series of jerks, and poor system response on other tasks even if
Imagine has a lower priority.
   Lightwave 2.x did the same thing. With Lightwave 3.0, they did a proper
'040 optimization, eliminating the interrupts and yielding a 2-3fold
rendering speed increase.
   Please check your compiler to be sure it doesn't generate code that
causes these interrupts. Thanks.

     <ELF> - Eric J Fleischer,MD - Dr Gandalf
     [e-mail]


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 63   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>
        IML <[e-mail]>
Subject: File Exchange
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 94 16:27:00 PST


  There have been some posts recently about UUENCODE file exchanges.  I am
really interested in something like this but don't have much experience with
it yet.  There was a post a couple of weeks ago, about attributes for Soap
Bubbles, where the originator sent it to the IML as a UUENCODE'd file.
 However, when I got it here on my node, there was a add-on message saying
the UUENCODE file had been converted into an attachment, as well as being
LHARC'ed and sent out from the relay that way.
   I use MicroSoft Mail for my interface to the 'Net, so I recieved the
attachment just fine.  With MicroSoft Mail, it is very easy to attach just
about any file and send it over the email path.  So far, as long as the
reciever is also using MicroSoft Mail, it has been possible for me to
transfer word-processing files, picture files, animation files, etc. as an
attachment.
  Anyway, I would be interested in hearing anything anybody might know about
file transfer over the 'Net.  I am having a few problems on the IML. When
the messages come through the imagine-relay, if the originator does not
include an email header/address in the body of the message, I don't see who
sent the message.  For some reason, my system here will not always send
email directly to a specific person's email address.  However, if that
person sends me email directly, I am able to use the "Respond" function and
send them email back directly.  But, again, if I "Compose" a new message
with their email address, my system here will not send it out, saying
something like "address not found".
   I think it would be great to get some sort of file transfer over the IML
going.  I would like to see some examples of other peoples' work, and  I
guess there is always the possibility of exchanging objects and such.
 Aminet and the wustl.archive are pretty good sources for rendered pictures,
some 3D objects, and other things but I think it would be pretty cool to be
exchange files directly.  So, what do you think/know?


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 64   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Ed Oats)
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 1994 06:33:18 PST
Subject: Help me subscribe

I use Imagine on the PC and would like to subscribe to this newsgroup (if
that is possible). I can't use telenet, only mail on Internet. Excuse my
ignorance please, I'm new to the net; can someone help tell me how to
participate?

Thanks-

Ed




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 65   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 07 Jan 94 00:04:54 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)
Subject: Ftp and atts


Hi there Fellow Imagine'ers.....

I Need a person with FTP access. to the wuarchive.wustl.edu.
and you should be able to "Amiga" UUdecode the attributes i mail you.

Then i want you to upload my attributes to wuarchive.wustl.edu and download
the attribut.lha from Steve Worley and UUencode it to me...

ANYONE...

Please E-MAIL me if you got this possibility...

   _:        So/ren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
   |  A2000c/68030/68882/9/345/33Mhz   /_______\                    |
   .                                                                .
... Replace repetitive expressions by calls to a common function.-Via DDDGate @ 2:230/418.0  DDDGate 1.42 (30.09.93)


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 66   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 06 Jan 1994 20:26:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Andrew P. Vogel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: A chat with Impulse

Hi everyone!

I recently sent a fax to the gang at Impulse asking them to address some of the
moaning that is/was going on on the list. In the fax, I said that if Mike
wanted to call, I'd be thrilled to explain/talk about anything. About 10
minutes after I faxed, Mike called me. We spoke for some time, about the
Amiga, Imagine 3.0, Essence/Apex, support, features, the list, etc... I'll
attempt to describe the high points of the conversation.

I asked about OS features - things like the file requestor, display dbase,
promotable, clipboards, et all. Mike said that they're working hard on the
big stuff, and that the little stuff (details) will come 'when they come'.

Also inquired about an '040 version, and was told that Imagine has LONG been
040 optimized. I don't believe it, but they seem opposed to recompiling with
the math040.lib that someone (Monty?) put out... Personally, I'd do ANYTHING
for a little more speed. One of Imagine's great strengths is its speed, and
if they can increase it, even by 10-20%, don't you think they'd want to?

I asked about ARexx (this is what you've been waiting to hear!). Mike explained
to me that the people at Impulse are just 'regular guys'. He said that for
the most part no one there (Impulse) has a use for ARexx, so he figures that
no other users (us) would have any use for it. He using the staff of Impulse
as a representative cross-section of their userbase. I don't think that the
gang out there is a representative cross-section, but that's my opinion. Mike
basically said that there aren't plans to implement ARexx for 3.0, or any
time soon thereafter.
Personally, I'd love to see Imagine support ARexx, so that I could send images
directly from Imagine to ADPro or ImageFX for processing, but Impulse doesn't
agree with the need... Ah well.

I asked about Essence/Apex. Boy, did we talk about THAT! Mike has some very
strong viewpoints about that whole situation, and shared them with me. Since
they were somewhat personal in nature (as opposed to being business), I'll
keep them out of this message. Suffice it to say that Mike said that the ball
is in Apex's court. It's up to APEX to update their textures to work with the
new 2.9/3.0 formats. I agree. I spoke to Steve Worley over lunch (Hi Steve!),
and he told me that he's planning on waiting till the texture format is
locked before updating his software, and he sounded committed to updating it.
I for one MISS Essence in 2.9, and wish very much that it was available, but
I also understand that the format may change yet again, and understand that
Steve doesn't want to have to do MULTIPLE updates, if possible.
For the time being, I can live without Essence, but keep 2.0 on my HD for
anything that needs those excellent textures!

I mentioned to Mike that Impulse's customer service is very uneven. He said
that they were aware of that, and were working on it.

The 3.0 release will have a bunch of new textures included. Mike mentioned
DIRT, and LIGHT TEXTURES. Didn't go into much detail on the LIGHT textures,
only to say that they're unlike anything we've seen before, and are AWESOME.

Another new feature... Another editor! This one is called the 3D Digitizer
Editor, and works very well with a 3d-digitizing product that Impulse will
be marketing for around $300. Mike told me that you could digitize an object
directly into this editor, and manipulate it within Imagine. Sounds exciting,
and affordable. Not many other details, though... We'll see!

Phew! This was a long message... And a long conversation. I appreciate the
time Mike took out of his day to talk with me about the new Imagine, and I
feel very confident that it'll be an excellent product.

When I asked Mike about a timeline, he said that that's one thing Impulse isn't
good about... Deadlines. (i knew that! :-)  ) He's hoping for a release pretty
soon, whatever that means.

I didn't ask about the manual...

I hope this information is helpful to you all. Let me know comments or
anything!

-andrew vogel





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 67   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 20:10:19 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Compiled list as requested

Hello imagineers!
    I have spent the last several hours going through the last month
of the IML that I have been saving as text (about 300 pages). I have listed
the majority of things people have mentioned concerning what they feel
is important to the improvement of imagine.

 not in any order of priority only as they showed up on the iml.

    1. Anti aliasing that could be set on a per object basis

    2. Load a brushmap once & use it for every object that
       has it as a map.

    3. Network distributive rendering like revelation 3D.

    4. Will imagine be compiled to run on cybernetics transputers

    5. Will grow f/x be fixed and will there be secondary support
       so we can add f/x

    6. Can we background process the render engine so we don't
       have to start multiple copies of imagine.

    7. When will clipboards be used?

    8. When will arexx be implemented?

    9. When will the display data base be implemented?

    10. When will datatypes be used? -
        -which is what would enable Imagine to transparently read
        any graphics format and have new ones installed without
        modifying imagine code.

    11. When will standard file requesters be used?
        --
        --| I have to note here oddly that it goes the furthest back
        --| and has been commented on about the most

    12. Iconifaction of its screen.

    13. request drag and drop.

    14. Request for using standard system fonts.

    15. Fractal displacement like vertex uses.

    16. Many comments about unhappy with 2.9 lens flare.

    17. Cheesy starfield.

    18. When will we get motion blurr?

    19. Stuff about Field rendering that I don't understand...

    20. refer to steves post on vertex.

Of all the things I read and all the information I have gone through
it looks like when people got 2.9 and did not see proper implementation
of the amiga dos features shaboom! things around here went down fast.

    Personally it scares me when mike says he is using a two year old
compiler that had to be patched. It troubles me that he would have to ask
about graphics data base since he is the developer and has updated manuals?
I DO NOT critisise him here I am just worried about my investment on the
amiga platform now, and am not the only one.

    If there are things I have left off this list I apologize and
ask all to feel free to fill in any gaps. If imagine is to be the best
mike needs to know the needs of it's users. The more specific the better.


                    Good luck mike
                       Lesk


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 68   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 07 Jan 94 10:54:12 +0000
From: [e-mail]

Hi Lesk,
    All you Cashes should be on to start with, check you have the
library 68040.library in your LIBS: drawer. If not you'll find it on
your INSTALL disk.

                    regards,

                    Stephen.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 69   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 07 Jan 94 10:52:53 +0000
From: [e-mail]

Hello Everyone,
        Sorry to keep this going, but from what Mike has said I find it
hard to believe he is a programmer. Is he? I am a very amateur Amiga programmer
but I seem to know more about the Amiga OS than he does. Perhaps he is still
coding on a KickStart 1.3 machine or something?
    As for 040 optimization, I'm not convinced. If I use the int or the fp
version I get the same order of rendering time. If the code had been optimised
for the 040 I would expect the fpu verion to be much faster. In case you don't
know the 040 doesn't all the trans functions in hardware and are implemented by
software interupts. So everytime there is a cos, sin etc the machine stops and
carries out an interupt routine in the 68040.library. If you code is optimised
for the 040 then it should NOT cause there interupts and have all the nessecary
code in the program already. As I have already said the speed increase
that can be gained in doubled! I think if this isn't done there will be
a lot of disappointed uses. Me for one. I have already paid for Imagine
3.0 so it won't
stop me buying it but I would very much rather it took advantage of my machine.
    Which bring up to all the Amiga OS features not being Implemented. I
believe the reason we will probably never so these is to make it easier
to convert to other platforms which lack the Amiga OS. But Mike, please, please,
please, please, a thousand times! please, look up an Amiga manual RKM Libraries
and find out just how easy it is to use all these nice things that the
lovelly people at Commodore have put in the OS for up.

                            regards,

                            Stephen.

****************************************************************************
*Stephen J Gowdy                *A4000/040* High Energy Physics Group,     *
*Bitnet: GOWDY AT GWIA          *460 MB HD* Dept Of Physics & Astronomy,   *
*DecNet: 20075::GOWDY           *6MEG RAM!* University of Glasgow.         *
*InterNet: [e-mail]*It moves!* Tel: [phone] E:5894 *
****************************************************************************


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 70   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 7 Jan 94 19:31:17 HKT
From: [e-mail] (Wong Kin Ming)
Subject: Amiga Format's offer of Imagine 3.0

Hi All imagine users !

I have ordered the 95 pounds special offer of Imagine 3.0 by Amiga Format Magazine (Future Publishing), and I was told that the product will be shipped and handled by Impulse directly.  I think it's been more than a month that I received the receipt from Future Publishing but no feedback or any information from Impulse yet.  (I know the Imagine 3.0 is still not ready).

So, any one of you have ordered the same special offer like me ?  Or how can I contact people in Impulse ?  Can anybody give me their fax number ?

Thanks a lot.


Mike.
Amiga user in Hong Kong.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 71   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 7 Jan 94 07:30:23 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: IMPULSE RESPONCE TO POST


[Mike from Impulse]
> >040 Optimizing,  this was done on 1.0 I have no idea why people think it

[Eric J Fleischer]
> particularly justified. But, in this case, I think they are. One of the
> prime indicators that a program is not properly '040 optimized is when it
> generates interrupts when processing heavily. Imagine generates TONS of
> interrupts while rendering. This manifests itself as a mouse pointer that

I have to agree with Eric on this one.  Further, stating "Imagine is
optimized for the 040" is a reasonably meaningless assertion unless you
qualify it more; there are at least 3 - no make that 4 - separate 040
optimizations which can be performed, all of which help, none of which
are mutually exclusive, and two of can actually slow down your code if
run on a 68030.  One can't be done by the compiler at all.  Most of
these abilities haven't even been present in the more popular Amiga
compilers until very recently.  Mike saying "040 optimization was done
on 1.0" doesn't really give one an idea of what was done.  It is sort of
like saying, "Todays luncheon special: Food!"  :-)

At any rate, 040 optimization doesn't rate very high on my personal
wishlist.  I find that for my long renders, most of the time is spent
running complex textures (Essence mostly) anyway.  My pictures which use
few or simple textures and many brushmaps render extremely rapidly
(sometimes just a few minutes for 800x600 using fairly complex objects).
However, Imagine has a large dependence on the world size.  Using small
objects which nearly fill the screen in a large sized world will render
*very* slowly in Imagine now (there can be orders of magnitude
differences).  I feel there are other algorithmic improvements which
could improve Imagine's rendering times in the "bad" cases more than 040
optimization.  In the "good" cases, it does pretty well now, IMHO.  Of
course, if your picture is a "bad" case that doesn't help you much.

When we get shadows in scanline mode in 3.0, that should help also.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 72   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 7 Jan 1994 16:21:18 +0000
From: "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: ANOTHER FROM IMPULSE

Happy New Year Imagineers :)

Mike McCool on Wed, Jan 5, 1994 11:27 pm wrote:

>    But you see what's happened:  you've let our impatience
>force you to rush out a product that's not exactly complete.

One could argue, on the negative side, that what Impulse has done is to recruit
a flock of beta testers, namely those of us who 'upgraded' to 2.9; and on the
positive side, that they've given us the opportunity to provide feedback on
what features we want to see in 3.0... and have we provided feedback!

Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 73   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 7 Jan 94 11:03:54 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Dan Mahoney)
Subject: adobe typescript - imagine 2.9 question


Howdy,
   I recently purchased the Fantazia font cd-rom which has gobs
   of adobe fonts on it.

   I was trying to use the spline editor in imagine 2.9 and the
   error is  MISSING ENCODING VECTOR.

   Does anyone have any ideas how to circumvent this problem?

   Thanks
   dan mahoney [e-mail]


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 74   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 10:44:49 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)
Subject: Re: Attribute exchange

>> >  DKd> Attributes?
>> > Yes i've got 524288 bytes of them, but how are we going to exchange them, i
>> > will NOT type all of them.. !
>> >  I'm sure we'd all
>> appreciate the contribution!
>
>I agree (I have a few to contribute also).  I also have a suggestion.
>Actually several.
>
>First, if you upload an archive containing attribute files to wuarchive
>(or elsewhere), it should say what it requires.  Some attribute files
>might use Essence textures (mine do), and some might use Imagine 3.0
>textures, and I doubt everyone has access to all of those.  It'd
>probably save time for folks if they could read up front that "these
>textures require Essence II" and skip it if they don't own Essence II.
>
>It might also be useful to insert a note about object scale.  For
>example, I have an excellent "rock" attribute using 3 Essence textures,
>but it only "works" on objects in a certain size range - else the
>features become too big or too small and you have to resize them.
>
>There is another idea taken from the texture examples shipped with
>Essence-II.  It turns out that, due to excellent design on the part of
>the folks who did IFF back in 1985, a file with a superset of the
>information you want can be used just like the exact file you want.
>(For example, if you are trying to load merely a palette, you can load a
>whole picture, and IFF will automatically pick the palette out of it).
>
>What this means for us is that you can make a flat plane *object* file
>(not attribute file) containing your attribute.  A user can use "load
>attribute" in Imagine and load this *object* just like it was an
>attribute file, because it *contains* attribute info.  This way, its
>easy for users to set up a simple render to view your attribute in
>whatever resolution and color mode they want, yet it is as easy to use
>the attribute file as if it was generated by "save attribute" instead of
>"save object".
>
>Last, it'd be nice to have a directory specifically for these attributes
>instead of having them sprinkled all around.
>
>Just some ideas,
>
>  - steve

        As a new user of Imagine and the IML these are the type of
contributions that I hoped would be on this list. I think it is a great
idea! It would give other users both new and old timers a chance to see
what other people are doing in the way of attribute tweeking.
        I also liked the idea that was presented a few days ago about a
"render off" (apologies to Pillsbury) using the new version of Imagine.
Some considerations could be file size, a deadline for uploading to Aminet,
and voting right here on the IML.
        I'd also like to take the opportunity to thank all contributors to
this list for the wealth of information contained herein (flames excluded).
As a novice, I go home every night with new ideas to try out! This is
indeed a unique forum, made up of users from all over the world most of
which are giving willing ly of advice and expertise! With the weekend at
hand I am hoping for bad weather so, I can justify basking in the light of
my monitor and rendering to my hearts content.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Toasters don't burn toast. People burn toast."
                        Curator Seattle Toaster Museum

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 75   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 14:00:38 -0600 (CST)
From: Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Command CPU



On Thu, 6 Jan 1994 [e-mail] wrote:

> Hello all Imagineers;
>     Has anyone with Amigados 3.0 tried the cpu command?
> I did and droppped a render from 1 hr 28 minutes to about 26 minutes by
> setting all options on and aloowing it to move the rom into fastram.
>                         Render Ho!
>                          Lesk

    Have you tried and/or compared it to Set040?  I'd be interested to
see the results...




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 76   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 14:09:34 -0600 (CST)
From: Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: GVP A1230 T+ Explosions



On Thu, 6 Jan 1994, Schumacher Gordon C wrote:

> > PS:  Any hints on good looking three dimentional text?
>
> Other than extruding?  Well, you can get a good bevelled effect by
> extruding the text with a resize x and z... or did you mean the original
> text?

    Imagine 2.9 (and I'm sure 3.0) has a spline editor designed for
just that effect.  It uses PostScript fonts and has options for beveling
and such.  Not bad.




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 77   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
    id AA04721; Fri, 7 Jan 94 20:23:16 GMT
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 94 20:23:16 GMT
Subject: T1000 "melt" morph


    I believe someone was discussing the T1000 "melt" morph effect
from "T2: Judgment Day".  I posted a reply as to how I would, if I
were them, write a program to perform the melt, and this got me really
thinking about it.  I've been wanting to learn C++, so instead of
re-using T3DLIB to mess with the Imagine objects, I decided to put my
money (uh, er... source code) where my mouth was and write a program
in C++ to perform the morph, thereby helping me to learn the
object-oriented paradigm at the same time.

    It takes a single object, and then produces a given number of
frames that "melt" the object down into a round puddle.  I have tried
it on a couple chess pieces and Carmen Rizzolo's NCC-1701-D (thanks,
Carmen!), and the results are interesting.  I like the melts of the
chess pieces, but the melt of the Enterprise is rather bizarre, and
probably not terribly usable.  But I had expected this, because the
way I designed the algorithm, it works best on "star-shaped" objects.
In a star-shaped object, you can find a single point within the object
such that all rays casted outward from that point intersect the
object's surface once and only once (i.e. hits only one face).  And
specifically, objects that are block-ish or vertically cylindrical in
nature.

    The resulting objects are morphable within Imagine.  In other
words, I only modify the location of the points in the object such
that the objects' topologies are identical to the original (all
points, edges, and faces corresponding one-to-one in the same order).
So we can crank out 10 objects, and then let Imagine smoothly morph
the in-betweens if you want more frames than 10.

    I'm now thinking of writing up an article about the algorithm
and sending it to a magazine (to get my name in lights so I can land
that job at ILM, and also for a couple bucks :-), and then after the
article comes out, just release the code into the public domain.

    Anyway, I was wondering if anyone would be interested in this
program?  If anybody would like to see how it looks on their object,
feel free to mail it to me, and specify the number of intermediate
objects you would like to get back (10 is probably a good number for
most cases), and then you could provide constructive criticism to me
on how you think it worked.  Please don't send huge objects, though,
like the Enterprise, as I don't want my mailer to get flooded and
don't want to waste internet bandwidth.

    Oh, and don't worry...  I won't use Intel's time or CPU
resources to perform this "service", so you don't have to notify my
employers.  :-)  (Believe it or not, someone asked me this before!)

                        -- Glenn


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 78   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 7 Jan 94 18:16:00 EST
From: "Ross Knepper" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Command CPU

>    Have you tried and/or compared it to Set040?  I'd be interested to
>see the results...

What is Set040?  Is it on AmiNet?  Where?

 -ross



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 79   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jan 1994   02:23:38 GMT
Subject: Re: T1000 "melt" morph
     Fri, 7 Jan 94 20:23:16 GMT


> on how you think it worked.  Please don't send huge objects, though,
> like the Enterprise, as I don't want my mailer to get flooded and
> don't want to waste internet bandwidth.

    Thanks for the idea...I may send you something.  Yeah, C++ is very
slick....it makes stuff a LOT easier to code and port!

    Just out of curiosity....why don't you try to melt the Cow object
that comes with Imagine?  It's a fairly neat object, and would be pretty
funny to see how it liiks morphing.  Maybe you could upload the 10 results
to wuarchive...





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 80   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 20:25:56 -0600 (CST)
From: Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Command CPU



On 7 Jan 1994, Ross Knepper wrote:
>
> What is Set040?  Is it on AmiNet?  Where?
>
>  -ross

    It is a program similar to CPU that is designed to move Kickstart
into RAM, plus do a few things with cashes and such.  I don't know enough
about the '040 to really tell you more, but it is located:

pub/aminet/util/misc set040.lha

in most Aminet sites, including ftp.cdrom.com

    Cyrus J. Kalbrener

        Digital_Cel




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 81   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 7 Jan 94 18:38:48 PST
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
Subject: Re: Command CPU



>
>>    Have you tried and/or compared it to Set040?  I'd be interested to
>>see the results...
>
>What is Set040?  Is it on AmiNet?  Where?
>

     I tried using Set040 with Imagine 2.9 on a 4000/040. No noticable
speedup. Set040 seems to conflict with some of my other software so it's
off the hd (I needed the ram anyway ;-).

                                                Christopher



--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).       Join the Animation Sig!


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 82   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
    id AA06280; Sat, 8 Jan 94 05:31:41 GMT
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 94 05:31:41 GMT
Subject: Re: T1000 "melt" morph

>>>>> "mbc" == mbc  <[e-mail]> writes:

mbc> Thanks for the idea...I may send you something.  Yeah, C++ is
mbc> very slick....it makes stuff a LOT easier to code and port!

    Definitely!  The constructors and destructors made the
programming *much* easier!  (After getting used to OOP-isms, of course.
:-)

mbc> Just out of curiosity....why don't you try to melt the Cow object
mbc> that comes with Imagine?  It's a fairly neat object, and would be
mbc> pretty funny to see how it liiks morphing.  Maybe you could
mbc> upload the 10 results to wuarchive...

    Good idea.  I'll try it out hopefully by Monday.  I don't know
how the legs on that puppy will do... the cow is definitely not a
"star-shaped" object.  Probably will end up looking like "Ground Beef."
:-)
                        -- Glenn





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 83   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
Date:     Sat, 8 Jan 1994 12:40:10 +0100

Hi all,

I know that this is somewhat unrelated to Imagine but it definitly
hits the people you render in DCTV format:

How do I scale a number of pix (say 460 :-) from 736x566 to
640x256 with 3 Bitplanes ?
Is there any PD program out there which could accomplish this task
as a batch process ?

Thanks for your help
hannes


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 84   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 02:27:35 +1100 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: More Grow F/X problems


On Thu, 30 Dec 1993, Steve Koren wrote:

>
> > Ok, so right now the Grow F/X doesn't seem to work on Imagine 2.9. But,
> > how about all the problems in 2.0 ? I was already aware that the scaling
>
> Sorry, I can't help with this, but I have a related question.  Is there
> something I'm not understand about the "Tumble" effect in 2.0?  I can
> use "Rotate2.0" with great results.  But if I just replace it with
> tumble but keep everything else the same, no movement takes place.  (The
> other F/X seem to work also - I just can't get tumble to do anything).
>
> Am I missing something?
>

Ok, I've used Tumble successfully in 2.0. What you have to do with it is
that the objects that are to be tumbled all have to be grouped to a
parent axis (just axis - not an object). The position of this axis in
relation to the objects will determine how the Tumble happens.

Nik.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 85   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 02:47:27 +1100 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ping ->)|


On Mon, 3 Jan 1994, Doug Kelly wrote:

> The bug reports on 2.9 seem to vindicate this decision.

2.9 has some nice features though and they do work - not perfectly in
many cases, but they do work.

>
> I'd love to keep using Imagine.  It's got lots of nice features, and the
> bang-for-the-buck from 2.0 is still one of the best deals in the Amiga/PC
> market.  But it's darn near standing still compared to the competition,
> and Impulse doesn't seem to have the right attitude to put Imagine out on
> the leading edge again.  If Mike & Co. don't shape up, all but the fanatic
> Imagine users will speedily head for greener pastures.
>
> Anybody out there actually USING Imagine to generate income?  How about a
> few encouraging words for those still struggling to learn the d**n thing?
>
Well, I still use Imagine  to generate some income (not my major
profession). I wanted to use 2.9 for its nifty features, but it is still too buggy for commercial use (Grow
F/X don't work, the perspective editing can go funny at times, etc.)

I have decided not to abandon it for a while for 2 reasons. I'm used to
the interface and despite its shortcomings I can use it relatively
competently. The second reason is that I don't like Real 3D. The
interface is different (yeah I know that it can be changed), the manual
has plenty of errors (at least there were those great tutorials and then
the book by Steve Worley for Imagine), rendering can be ultra slow
(forget the claimed internal multitasking), and the animation system is
still its weak point.

I'd love LW, but LW + Lightrave is prohibitively expensive right now.
Alladin 4D is a toy, and then there is Caligari - yeah right. :-)

So, Imagine it is for now. Gotta send those bug reports to Impulse.

Nik.
[e-mail]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 86   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
Subject: Suggestions for Impulse
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 94 10:30:46 PST


Regarding Mike's post where he mentions "instant feedback."

This is one area where I feel Imagine could use a big boost.  Now, I
know that "real-time" raytracing is out of the question, but I'm talking
about feedback in the animation modules.  I.e., the way it is now in the
Stage ed., you have to wait for Imagine to load all the objects in from
disk every time you change frames.  This really slows me down and makes
animation choreography a pain in the proverbial butt.  I'd love to see
Imagine just load all the objects once, and let me move thru the frames
as fast as it can redraw the editor windows (see LW3.0 ;^) .

Now, I have not seen the new realtime perspective window in 2.9, but I
Imagine it's a step in the right direction.  If only the same philosophy
could be applied to the Stage ed.

Heck, I'm sure it would speed rendering too, not having to load the
entire scene for each frame.

My only other bone-to-pick with y'all regards my experience with
reporting bugs to customer service.  Back when 2.0 was first released, I
was having trouble getting some old 1.1 Forms objects to load.  Well,
the person on the phone outright accused me of pirating Imagine, saying
that bug only showed up in some pirate versions....  After assuring this
person that I did indeed own a fully payed-for copy of Imagine, he
proceeded to admit that this was a known-bug, and shipped me a new set
of disks.  If, as you say, you know there are bugs in Imagine, and you
proceed to fix them, you MUST make us users aware of the new bugless
versions and how to get them.  I don't mind finding bugs in s/w, I know
nobody's perfect and a piece of code this large must be difficult to
fully debug by one small company, as long as I can be assured that they
WILL be acknowledged and fixed, and the new version released with a new
rev.#.  I don't like the practice of denying that bugs exist, and then
"secretly" releasing a fixed version with the same rev.#.  I hope that
is not your intention, but it IS the way I (and other users) have
percieved it in the past.

Well, thanks for listening, Mike.  I'm sure you will take this as the
constructive critism that it is, and not as a personal flame.  Keep on
working til 3am on 3.0, I can't wait to get it!

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 87   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 8 Jan 1994 13:28:45 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: more cpu

Hi Imagineers;
    Well I found my storie was not quite complete on the
amiga dos command called cpu. What I didn't realize was there
were some other things I experimented with.
    1. I started imagine with  "RUN IMAGINE.FP"
    2. Typed status and found imagine to be process #1
    3. I typed CHANGETASKPRI 7 PROCESS 1

Now I had CPU CASH BURST (can't recall this last one but kickstart goes to
fastram)
setup in my startup-sequence.

    The only word that describes what happened is it "SCEAMS"
But it also crashes imagine. I have rendered as many as 3 frames though.
and none of my other software fails. I don't know if it is how imagine
is compiled or if it because my other software is not as graphic oriented.
also nothing I do will allow imagine to make or play an animation I
have to set the anim button and use an old version of hamlab.

    If anyone tries these ADOS commands I would like to know the
results.

                        Thanks
                         Lesk


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 88   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 8 Jan 1994 15:17:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ping ->)|
        Imagine MailingList <[e-mail]>

>
> I have decided not to abandon it for a while for 2 reasons. I'm used to
> the interface and despite its shortcomings I can use it relatively
> competently. The second reason is that I don't like Real 3D. The
> interface is different (yeah I know that it can be changed), the manual
> has plenty of errors (at least there were those great tutorials and then
> the book by Steve Worley for Imagine), rendering can be ultra slow

Yeah, speaking about those tutorials, does anyone know where they are
archived? Or if they are? I got one ages ago before I knew about the list,
and loved it.  If anyone knows where the rest are....Speak up.

Steve.





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 89   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
Subject: v2.9 Potential bug morphing
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 94 23:21:28 EST

I'd like someone with a bit of time on their hands to try to reproduce
this problem before I call Impulse about it. It's always good to have
a second opinion.

I was morphing an object with 2 states between the 2 states. There
was a sequence of iff's mapped on the object. I got an error
stating "can't load path/picout"  Picout is the root of the file sequence
name. they were numbered picout.0001, picout.0002...... At first
I assumed that this was a problem with states. So as a test I took
a primitive plane and mapped the same sequence on it. Another primitive plane
had the same sequence applied. I set up a simple 10 frame animation
with plane 1 morphing into plane 2. SAME ERROR.

I know I've done this many times in 2.0 so as a sanity check I set up
the same simple two planes morphing animation. It rendered w/o a
problem.

soooo. Is it A bug?? can anyone reproduce this?? I really need to render this
animation by wednesday, and am starting to feel like I'm gonna be screwed.
any help before wed. is greatly appreciated.

                    |
steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 90   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 9 Jan 94 01:12:52 EST
         (from [e-mail])
         (at Thu, 6 Jan 1994 20:10:19 -0700 (MST))
From: [e-mail] (Yury German)
Subject: Re: Compiled list as requested

Hi LESK (LESK), in <[e-mail]> on Jan 6 you wrote:

:
:     16. Many comments about unhappy with 2.9 lens flare.
:

    Well I find this a big one... especially after reading a few of
the nice articles in VTU (yes subscribe to that.. even since do not have a
toaster). It seems Lens Flare can be used for alot of things.. besides
just the visiual things everyone things about (Babylon5 Intro). The nice
little trick with having a diffused backlit effect behind the objects
using Lens Flare was interesting and I can see where it can be usefull! So
maybe Mike should do what he said last message (listening to people) and
take a consensis here from the list (If he wants I can create a mail
address for the votes so no one will have to count except my mail editor
and arexx scripts) and find out how many people want REAL lens Flare with
alot of things added to it instead of a texture or post porciessing lens
flare


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 91   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 9 Jan 94 12:10:53 +0200
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Pro 3D


Hello, all those who await the third!

I'm starting a small business for 3D animation.  So I ask all those who
make a living out of it:  How much do you charge for your work?  Is it by
hours?  Days?  Equipment value?

I take 300$-800$ for most animations. Is that 'normal'? will I be able to
get my first Porsche in a few months?

[e-mail]


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 92   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 9 Jan 94 10:38:26 GMT
From: Andrew Nunn <[e-mail]>
Subject: wuarchive imagine area

Does anyone know how uploads to the wuarchive amiga/boing/incoming/imagine
directory get moved to the target directory. I uploaded some items several
weeks ago and they haven't moved yet. Do we have to email someone ?

Andrew


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 93   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 9 Jan 94 11:09:53 GMT
From: Andrew Nunn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Electric Field effect

Here's an interesting texture effect to try.
1. Create an object (in my case a logo)
2. Set the Filter Attribute to 255,255,255.
3. Set the Bright attribute.
4. Add the 2.9 Worm Vein Texture, set the vein colour to your choice eg
   electric blue,and adjust the Filter setting to 0,0,0.
5. Create a second version of the object with the texture axis moved (in the
   logo case say from one end of the logo to the other).
6. Create a short animation morphing the two versions.

What you get is a sort of varying electric field effect, the speed of
variation being controlled by the number of frames and the distance of
movement of the texture axis.

Further, it is then possible to morph the object filter setting to 0,0,0
and the texture filter setting to 255,255,255, creating a transporter
beam materialization effect. However for this to work fully,the Bright
setting must be removed at some point.

Andrew


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 94   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
Date:     Sun, 9 Jan 1994 13:07:06 +0100

Hi Imagineers,

I want to thank all the people for the info on scaling DCTV pics.
I managed my problem now.

Keep in touch
Hannes


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 95   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date:     Sat, 8 Jan 1994 22:58:00 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Troy Hacker)
Subject: Re: more cpu
      dated: Sat, 8 Jan 1994 13:28:45 -0700 (MST)

I use Set040 to remap kickstart into 32bit memory on my G-Force040.  I also
use the GVPCPUCTRL command to Move the supervisor stack to 32bit memory.  This
make a big difference to render speed.

I have all cashes on, but I am not using burst as the GVP card only supports
burst mode it all the simm sockets are full on the G-Force card.  I have my
last simm coming in in a few days so, I'll be able to comment on this.

As for starting Imagine with the AmigaDOS run command I do this all the time.

I created a shell script to start Imagine

ChangeTaskPri -1
Run <NIL: >NIL: Imagine.FP

I use Run <NIL: >NIL: Imagine.Script

This has Imagine running at less than any other programs that I run on the
Amiga.  The reason that I do this is so, I can continue working on other
applications without seeing any slow down while Imagine is rendering away.

This does have the effect of slowing down the render process while I have
things running in the forground.  But at night when I'm not running anything
Imagine will kick into high gear, because all the other tasks are sleeping
(not receiving any input).  Render speed returns to normal, because no other
programs are competing for the CPU Imagine basically gets all of CPU time.

Until the someone starts using the Amiga again.

Cheers!


--
Troy Hacker -- 32 Trothen Circle, Markham, ON, L3P 4H5     VOX: [phone]
    UUCP: ...web!becker!courier!troy                       FAX: [phone]
INTERNET: [e-mail] [e-mail] [e-mail]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 96   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1904 20:41:23 +0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)
Subject: Re: more cpu

>I use Set040 to remap kickstart into 32bit memory on my G-Force040.  I also
>use the GVPCPUCTRL command to Move the supervisor stack to 32bit memory.  This
>make a big difference to render speed.
>
        Interesting is there a standard amigados command to move the supervidsor
into 32 bit ram.

>As for starting Imagine with the AmigaDOS run command I do this all the time.
>
>I created a shell script to start Imagine
>
>ChangeTaskPri -1
>Run <NIL: >NIL: Imagine.FP
>
>I use Run <NIL: >NIL: Imagine.Script
>
>This has Imagine running at less than any other programs that I run on the
>Amiga.  The reason that I do this is so, I can continue working on other
>applications without seeing any slow down while Imagine is rendering away.
>
>This does have the effect of slowing down the render process while I have
>things running in the forground.  But at night when I'm not running anything
>Imagine will kick into high gear, because all the other tasks are sleeping
>(not receiving any input).  Render speed returns to normal, because no other
>programs are competing for the CPU Imagine basically gets all of CPU time.
>
>Until the someone starts using the Amiga again.
>
>Cheers!
>
>
>--
>Troy Hacker -- 32 Trothen Circle, Markham, ON, L3P 4H5     VOX: [phone]
>    UUCP: ...web!becker!courier!troy                       FAX: [phone]
>INTERNET: [e-mail] [e-mail] [e-mail]

        My attempt here was to turn all power to imagine so it would really
cook
and just watching the open screens it was much faster.

        I still can't get imagine 2.9 to do an animation though, I would like
to know if any other aga users have this problem as well?


                                                Lesk




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 97   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1904 21:07:59 +0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)
Subject: Re: Compiled list as requested

>Hi LESK (LESK), in <[e-mail]> on Jan 6 you wrote:
>
>:
>:       16. Many comments about unhappy with 2.9 lens flare.
>:
>
>        Well I find this a big one... especially after reading a few of
>the nice articles in VTU (yes subscribe to that.. even since do not have a
>toaster). It seems Lens Flare can be used for alot of things.. besides
>just the visiual things everyone things about (Babylon5 Intro). The nice
>little trick with having a diffused backlit effect behind the objects
>using Lens Flare was interesting and I can see where it can be usefull! So
>maybe Mike should do what he said last message (listening to people) and
>take a consensis here from the list (If he wants I can create a mail
>address for the votes so no one will have to count except my mail editor
>and arexx scripts) and find out how many people want REAL lens Flare with
>alot of things added to it instead of a texture or post porciessing lens
>flare

Yep! Like I said Many comments.
        I am not going to presume to tell impulse what to do but I think it is
a very good idea to let them know what the majority of their users wan't.
I also wan't to make clear that I think everyone desires all the features listed
in the last newsletter from impulse (the spline editor didn't mean much to
me since I use vertex. But some praise to impulse on that list if they do
it in 3.0 does need to be given. it is an excellent features list.) as well
as all the other stuff that is listed
here in the IML.

        NO! I do not want impulse to make changes in 3.0 now! it's time for
it to
be released. but consideration of all this commentary here should certainly give
impulse some ideas for 4.0.


As to lensflare I did a logo in glass with the mirror behind (by the way I think
the bug with glass is fixed) then as I sweeped the camera across used the
lensflare
with a ruby rainbow effect. Everyone that saw it loved it. without the flare it
just came out kind of flat. Hey money counts! they payed and lensflare made
the difference. (I don't charge much as I still consider myself an ameture)
So an improved
version of it would definatly be in order as far as I am concerned.

                                                        Render Ho!
                                                           Lesk




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 98   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 09 Jan 1994 23:10:29 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: GVP Online?

Howdy All!

I was wondering if anyone knew if GVP had a BBS or could be found through the
internet.  My accelerator board continually explodes, and I'd like to know if
there are other owners of the A1230 Turbo Plus that are experiencing the same
problems.  More importantly, I am curious if the Performance Series II of the
aforementioned board is GVP's solution to the problem. So, If you have any
knowledge of how to find GVP On-Line, drop me a line.  Thanks!

Bob O'Connell
Studio for Interrelated Media/Eventworks 94
Massachusetts College of Art, Boston


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 99   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 09 Jan 94 01:26:02 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Saffold)
Subject: Re: T1000 "melt" morph


>         Anyway, I was wondering if anyone would be interested in this
> program?  If anybody would like to see how it looks on their object,
> feel free to mail it to me, and specify the number of intermediate
> objects you would like to get back (10 is probably a good number for
> most cases), and then you could provide constructive criticism to me

I'd like to, but I doubt it would be too kosher to send the cycleman
object...:)  Weird things concerning copyright laws and piracy...:)
(ALtho if there was a way, I would like to get one wiht a morphed
cycleman..  I do own it legally, so if there was someway that I could
send you the serial #, and the Author gave the OK, and just send me
the intermediate morphs, as I have the Cman itself???)

    __
 __///   Jeff Saffold
 \\X/   Amiga 3000 User

___
 X MsgView V1.13 [R029] X Friction is a drag.
--
*******************************************************************
*  Cuerna Verde BBS FidoNet Gateway  *  Data/Fax: [phone]  *
*  Pueblo, Colorado USA              *  FidoNet:  1:307/18        *
*******************************************************************


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 100   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 8:52:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Freundlich <[e-mail]>
Subject: Set040 (was Re: Command CPU)

>On 7 Jan 1994, Ross Knepper wrote:
>>
>> What is Set040?  Is it on AmiNet?  Where?
>>
>>  -ross

>        It is a program similar to CPU that is designed to move Kickstart
>into RAM, plus do a few things with cashes and such.  I don't know enough
>about the '040 to really tell you more, but it is located:

>pub/aminet/util/misc set040.lha

>in most Aminet sites, including ftp.cdrom.com

>From about 2 months ago until this weekend, I had a "set040 fastrom reset
noclick" in my startup-sequence (or user-startup; I forget which they
recommended in the docs ...)

The reason I pulled it out was that I was getting intermittent gurus from the
RAM task.  I'd get a recoverable one or two, then a deadend.  After looking
over my system, I decided that the most likely candidate was set040.

Pulled out the fastrom option Friday evening, and I haven't had the crash
since.  But, oddly enough, the noclick doesn't work now (that may be in the doc
though).

I'm not saying don't use set040, just noting one user's problems.

Rob

+---------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
|Rob Freundlich                         |#define SYSOP GOD                   |
|IDX Systems Corporation                |#define REALITY NULL                |
|[e-mail]     <- You Are Here |                                    |
|[e-mail]                 |Diseased Programmers do it in MUMPS!|
+---------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
|     Amiga 4000/040/25MHz/10M/120M - No IBM clone even comes close!         |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  "Some folks you don't have to satirize, ya just quote 'em" - Tom Paxton   |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|#include <stdio.h> void main() {printf("My opinions, not my employer's\n");}|
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 101   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 02:22:52 +1100 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ping ->)|


On Sat, 8 Jan 1994, Steve Lopez wrote:

> >
> > I have decided not to abandon it for a while for 2 reasons. I'm used to
> > the interface and despite its shortcomings I can use it relatively
> > competently. The second reason is that I don't like Real 3D. The
> > interface is different (yeah I know that it can be changed), the manual
> > has plenty of errors (at least there were those great tutorials and then
> > the book by Steve Worley for Imagine), rendering can be ultra slow
>
> Yeah, speaking about those tutorials, does anyone know where they are
> archived? Or if they are? I got one ages ago before I knew about the list,
> and loved it.  If anyone knows where the rest are....Speak up.
>
> Steve.

Well, the tutorials used to be on hubcap.clemson.edu before it was shut
down. The may be on wuarchive.wustl.edu in amiga-boing/video/imagine
section though....

Give it a try.

Nik.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 102   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 10 Jan 1994 15:41:41 +0000
From: "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: FEEDBACK

Andrew P. Vogel on Fri, Jan 7, 1994 8:35 pm wrote to me:

>I know we've provided PLENTY of feedback on 2.9... Do you think
>Impulse is listening & hearing the suggestions?

My impression is that Impulse thought a while ago about releasing a new version
of Imagine that added a few extra features to keep it up to date with what was
'new and whizzy' maybe a year to 18 months ago.  They then released 2.9 as a
stop gap because we were nagging at them to release 3.0.  2.9 was intended to
placate us.

What 2.9 did was to provoke us into demanding more of Imagine and Impulse.  We
didn't just want some bug fixed version with a few bells and whistles.  We
wanted the whole shooting match, and said as much to them in our email, faxes
and phone calls.  You might even call 2.9 an 'exploratory' release, Impulse
using it to discover what we want in 3.0.

I feel that this has made Impulse think twice about releasing the 3.0 they were
originally going to (sort of last year's version, you might say).  I think
(hope!) they have taken our suggestions and will release a 3.0 that is as
robust as 2.0 and will have many new and usable features.

Obviously they are keen to make a good impression with 3.0, primarily for new
sales reasons,  but also for customer loyalty (that is, we don't all migrate to
Real3D  or Lightwave) and enduring customer confidence (that is, so that we
wait with baited breath for 3.1 and 4.0).

Just my opinions of course :)

Regards, David Oxley.  <[e-mail]>



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 103   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 08:26:14 EST
From: [e-mail] (Alex DeBurie)
Subject: Vertex 2.0 Announcement

I understand there has been some interest on the IML about Vertex 2.0,
the generic 3D editor for the Amiga. I'm the author and publisher of
the program, so I'd like to fill you in on the general info.

Vertex 2.0

    Advanced 3D object processing software for the Amiga. Supports
    multiple file formats - Imagine, Lightwave 3D, Sculpt 3D,
    Wavefront, 3D Professional, plus the Public Domain raytracers POV
    and RayShade.

    Features: Point editing in perspective, Arexx port, fractal trees,
    fast "solid models", distortion tools such as taper, twist, bend,
    be-sphere, gravity, thicken, and more. Plus fast polygon
    triangulation, 2D and 3D fractals, accurate IFF tracing by hand,
    EPS importing from ProDraw 2.0, beveling, and more. Vertex now
    supports overscan and mode promotion.

    Vertex 2.0 requires AmigaDOS 2.0 or higher, and at least 2.5 megs
    of free fast ram.

Demo Available

    You may find the Vertex 2.0 demo on many bulliten board systems
    across the US, and in other parts of the world.

For further information contact:

    In the USA                     In Germany
    ===========================    ====================================
    The Art Machine                Hannes Heckner
    4189 Nickolas                  Waldtruderingerstrasse 30
    Sterling Heights, MI 48310     81827 Munich
    USA                            GERMANY
    [phone]                 + 49 89 439 6224
    email:                         email:
      [e-mail]          [e-mail]



--


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 104   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Alex... <[e-mail]>
Subject: Retina, Imagine, + A4000/040... Problems *;o(
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 16:01:15 +0000 (GMT)

OK, here we go,

I've just got my new A4000/040 with 18megs of ram and a nice chunky HD. So
the first thing I did was to install the OS, the Retina software (V1.4) and
Imagine 2.9.

I had been using both 2.0 and 2.9 on a B2000 with an 030 and 10megs of 32bit
ram on a 1024x768 Retina screen for some time and had NO problems at all.
However, as soon as I tried to use it on the A4000 I ran into trouble.

As soon as I try to PICK a SELECTED object the screen corrupts - ghosted
images form other Amiga screens appear in the SELECT color on the Imagine
screen, and the PICKED object does not change colour. However an Amiga-R
refresh clears this. If I then try to more/rotate/scale/etc. that object
shit really hits the fan, menus and requesters no longer work, and a quick
check on the old `avail` command shows that my largest chunk of free chip
ram has strangely dropped form about ~900,000 bytes to ~900 bytes.

Another symptom is that if I move objects around in the perspective window
and the triview window, the right hand side of the screen is ghosted on the
left hand side of the screen, and the left hand side of the screen is
ghosted on the right hand side of the screen!

This problem only seems to be present when the Retina is bumping up the
Imagine screen size above the default, but happens with both Imagine 2.9
and 2.0.

BTW, I checked all the obvious like my extra ram, and tried it with all
versions of the Retina software, but no luck - it was still there.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
                    Alex...

%-----\|/------------------- #include <.siggy.h> --------------------------%
%    (o o)     [e-mail]         -=* Retina's Rule *Bo) *=-  %
%-oOO-(_)-OOo- CSE Student @ Warwick Uni. UK  "All opinions are just mine" %


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 105   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 11:13:48 -0600 (CST)
From: Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Set040 (was Re: Command CPU)



On Mon, 10 Jan 1994, Rob Freundlich wrote:

> >From about 2 months ago until this weekend, I had a "set040 fastrom reset
> noclick" in my startup-sequence (or user-startup; I forget which they
> recommended in the docs ...)
>
> The reason I pulled it out was that I was getting intermittent gurus from the
> RAM task.  I'd get a recoverable one or two, then a deadend.  After looking
> over my system, I decided that the most likely candidate was set040.
>
> Pulled out the fastrom option Friday evening, and I haven't had the crash
> since.  But, oddly enough, the noclick doesn't work now (that may be in the doc
> though).
>
> I'm not saying don't use set040, just noting one user's problems.
>
> Rob

    There are some newer revisions out there, which fix some bugs.  I
have problems as well:  when my system crashes it comes back with a system
requester saying that set040 failed.  I think that it is more likely that
it is an error in my use of the setings.  I don't understand the '040
enough to be sure of my actions, but I can tell that there is a speed
increase with set040...

    Cyrus J. Kalbrener

        Digital_Cel




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 106   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 13:17:51 -0500 (EST)
From: "Andrew P. Vogel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: FAQ posting?

Okay... How frequently is the FAQ posted/updated? I've been anxiously
awaiting the newest version.

For that matter, how about the archives? When/how often are those posted and
updated?



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 107   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Render time & Global size
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 09:59:00 PST


Greetings Imaginarians,

   I am still tweaking on a nautical animation that I have been working on
for awhile.  Making some progress but still running into multiple hurdles.
 I have found that I have to be in Trace mode to suitably render water,
mainly an ocean above and below the surface.  I have been trying to find an
optimal size for my "world" but need some help.
   I was trying the Global size default of 0,0,0 recommended in
Understanding Imagine and scaling my world in the stage editor to 1024,
1024, 1024.  This was working on single frames just fine and resulting in
fairly short render times during my test renders, so I added about 30 more
frames, for one small scene segment of the total animation.  I also added
some textures to my ocean and global fog, put a sky backdrop, set EDLE for 2
reflections, and some other things and started the render.  I expected
things to slow down and they did, but my practice is to render single 24-bit
frames, and multitask ADPRO to monitor the progress of the finished frames.
 Thought things were going OK until, lo and behold, starting around frame
20, my "world" started disappearing.  By frame 27, my "world" had
disappeared.  Anyway, to make a long story short, I found that the default
Global size does not work reliably.  So, I manually entered the Global world
size.  Now, my render time has increased by 3 or 4 times!  The world is not
disappearing anymore but it sure has slowed down.
   Somebody mentioned that large world sizes render faster than small ones.
 Steve Worley mentions some things about very small world sizes in
Understanding Imagine and the effect on render times.  I am wondering if
anybody has experimented around with a nominal world size to use that
results in optimal render times?  I am going to try to experiment with this
myself but maybe you can help me save some time (literally).  Also, since I
started on this thing, I have gotten 2.9, and while 2.9 seems to be slightly
faster in Trace mode render compared to 2.0, it still has the same problems
(unreliable default Global world size, etc).  Appreciate any help or
experience you may have.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 108   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
    id AA10995; Mon, 10 Jan 94 18:33:24 GMT
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 18:33:24 GMT
Subject: ChessMelt.lha


    I just uploaded to ftp.wustl.edu in the "/pub/aminet/new"
directory, the files "ChessMelt.lha" and "ChessMelt.readme".  When the
automated Aminet scripts kick in, they should be moved to
/pub/aminet/gfx/3dobj, and then mirrored on ftp.luth.se.  But in the
meantime, you should be able to grab these from the "new" directory,
even though you can't perform an "ls" there.

    This archive contains Steve Worley's freely distributable
chess pieces (thanks, Steve!) that have been "melted" by my new C++
program I wrote to perform object "melts" similar to the morphs in
"T2: Judgment Day" done on the T1000.

    Enjoy!  Comments are welcome, of course.
                            -- Glenn


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 109   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 12:30:03 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Music/Imagine anims

Hello all;
    I was wondering how to get music mixed with my anims so when
vt or whatever is used sound comes with the anim?
    I realise 3.0 is supposed to have this feature but not knowing when
it will arrive I would like to get some things done now.

                    Thanks
                     Lesk
P.S. I love the new metals texture!


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 110   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Ed Oats)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 03:40:23 PST
Subject: Interactive scale does not update Action Editor

I use the PC version of Imagine. If I go to a frame and use the gadget to
scale an object (not transform requester), then update the size, position,
orientation bars, The object remains the same size as before scaling when I
return to the frame or in the action editor. Position changes seem to take
fine, however. If I use transform requester, it works though. The objects
in question are grouped to an axis, which I select to scale. The whole
object is colored as picked. How am I goofing?

Thanks,

Ed




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 111   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 10 Jan 94 20:52:21 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)
Subject: JPEG in 3.0


Hi Imagine'ers...

Does anyone know whether Imagine V3.0 will be able to use jpeg pictures as
backdrops/brushwraps ect.. ?

   _:        Sren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
   |  A2000c/68030/68882/9/345/33Mhz   /_______\                    |
   .                                                                .
... You know you're in trouble when you can't stand folks who are intolerant.

-Via DDDGate 1.45 @ 2:230/418.0, 10 Jan 94  21:05:53


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 112   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 12:35:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Render time & Global size

Re: Disappearing world

I've had similar problems that seemed to be related to the way Imagine
cleans up the RAM after each frame.  That is to say, not very well.  If
you are running close to your RAM limits to render a single frame, when
you render several frames in succession the incremental loss of available
RAM will prevent Imagine from loading your objects completely.

I don't know of an elegant work-around.  I just quit Imagine and restart
it, and re-render the frames that were incomplete.

IMHO, this is a MAJOR bug that should have been fixed in 1.1.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 113   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date:  Mon, 10 Jan 1994 16:02:16 -0500
 [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.062:10.00.94.21.02.18]
From: "rob (r.d.) hounsell" <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Re: Render time & Global size

Ted,

  Some questions and a possible solution.

>    I was trying the Global size default of 0,0,0 recommended in
> Understanding Imagine and scaling my world in the stage editor to 1024,
> 1024, 1024.  This was working on single frames just fine and resulting in

  FMI, How do you tell it is scaled to 1024x1024x1024 in the stage editor?

> some textures to my ocean and global fog, put a sky backdrop, set EDLE for 2
> reflections, and some other things and started the render.  I expected

  EDLE is the anti-alias setting, isn't it? I can't remember the reflection
depth parm name.

>  Thought things were going OK until, lo and behold, starting around frame
> 20, my "world" started disappearing.  By frame 27, my "world" had
> disappeared.  Anyway, to make a long story short, I found that the default
> Global size does not work reliably.  So, I manually entered the Global world
> size.  Now, my render time has increased by 3 or 4 times!  The world is not
> disappearing anymore but it sure has slowed down.

  I had an animation in which the world slowly disappeared (only in trace
mode). At first I thought it was a memory gobbler, but what eventually worked
was this: I had the action bar for global spanning the entire series of frames,
and the world size was set to 0,0,0. I changed the size of the bar to occupy
just the first frame, and that fixed the problem! I didn't notice any time
changes.

Rob
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Rob Hounsell                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@NMERH53           |
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| System Performance:                    PHONE: [phone]                |
| Paradigm Club Design Team. Dept. PS27  ESN: 395-2904                        |
| Northern Telecom Public Switching                                           |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 114   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Jan 1994   21:55:33 GMT
Subject: Re: FAQ posting?
     Mon, 10 Jan 1994 13:17:51 -0500 (EST)


> Okay... How frequently is the FAQ posted/updated? I've been anxiously
> awaiting the newest version.
>
> For that matter, how about the archives? When/how often are those posted and
> updated?
>

    Well...it's posted when I update it.  However I've been a bit busy.
Also just about all that I can think to add are those number for hex editing
imagines screen size.  (I may have others in my mail folder, i'll have to sort
through).  If you have any other suggestions please mail them to the imlfaq
list.

    Mike C.
    [e-mail]





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 115   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 23:08:30 +0100
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: ChessMelt.lha


>         I just uploaded to ftp.wustl.edu in the "/pub/aminet/new"
>directory, the files "ChessMelt.lha" and "ChessMelt.readme".

I've just uploaded it, and I think it's corrupt... Is it my version
of lha, which seems to be the latest, that won't work ? I'm very interested
in these objects, so tell me how to get them, please...
    Is anyone going to upload attributes on aminet ? I'm also very
interested. I'll be able to find the right attributes for my bicycle,
and then I'll upload it.
    Another question: do you think Scala and Bar&Pipes might be used to
play music with animations (I own a Midi synthesizer) ? How would I do ?

                Stanis

                    [e-mail]


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 116   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
    id AA10336; Mon, 10 Jan 94 16:06:49 GMT
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 16:06:49 GMT
Subject: Re: T1000 "melt" morph

>>>>> "Jeff" == Jeff Saffold <[e-mail]> writes:

Jeff> I'd like to, but I doubt it would be too kosher to send the
Jeff> cycleman object...:) Weird things concerning copyright laws and
Jeff> piracy...:) (ALtho if there was a way, I would like to get one
Jeff> wiht a morphed cycleman..

    Oh, right...  I forgot to mention that if you do send me any
object, make sure it is PD, as I have no intention of getting in
trouble for messing with copyrighted objects.  Thanks for the
reminder, Jeff!  :-)

                        -- Glenn


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 117   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 10:34:51 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: more cpu



> My attempt here was to turn all power to imagine so it would
> really cook
[by running Imagine with a really high priority]

This is not a good idea for several reasons.  First, if you use a high
enough priority, you can conflict with system "things" such as the
processes which handle disk I/O.  That's bound to cause problems.  High
priorities are fine for things which don't take much CPU time (on the
order of micro or milliseconds at a time), but for a renderer its not
good at all.  Also, it'll prevent you from using your system normally
during rendering.  All you'll be able to really do is wait for it to
finish rendering, unless you increase the priority of everything else,
but then you'll be effectively back where you started.

Running Imagine with a low priority (I use -25, which is just like -1
unless you have other things between) will let it get all the cycles not
allocated to anything else.  If your system is idle, AmigaDos is
*extremely* efficient about this - it has lower overhead for this than
just about any other OS in existence.  For long renders, this enables me
to use my system for other purposes without seeing a slowdown in
performance, while Imagine gets all the free cycles (generally over 98%
for text editing and telecom sorts of things).

The only things to watch out for are other processes with higher
priority which are "CPU hogs".  Some screen blankers are that way -
shutting them off during rendering is best (although some are smart
enough to turn off their CPU consuming activity if the CPU is busy from
another process, even one with lower priority).

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 118   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Greetings !
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 16:46:26 CST



Greetings,

I'm Scott Kirvan - I'm presently working at Impulse doing textures, FX, some
other side projects for imagine, and probably some work on applications beyond
the scope of Imagine.

I just recently (within the last week) got this Internet account through a
friend of mine, and have only been on the IML for the last few days.  This is
NOT through Impulse - so if my mail begins to take up too much disk space, I
may lose the account.

My interest in sub'ing here is personal - not an official response by
Impulse.  Impulse does know I'm going to be keeping track of the net on a
daily basis, and has given me a green light to speak freely about what's
going on in house.

Anyway, I just wanted to introduce myself and say hi.


later...   sk...



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 119   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 14:42:25 -0700
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Anims and Sound
X-Organization: VeriFone
X-Ps-Qualifiers:
 /FONT=Courier-Bold/LINES=66/LEFT_MARGIN=36/CALCULATE/TOP_MARGIN=36/BOTTOM_MARGIN=36
X-Envelope-To: email.sp.paramax.com!imagine
X-Vms-Cc: JEFF_W1


> Hello all;
>    I was wondering how to get music mixed with my anims so when
> vt or whatever is used sound comes with the anim?
>    I realise 3.0 is supposed to have this feature but not knowing when
> it will arrive I would like to get some things done now.
>
>                    Thanks
>                     Lesk

  Well if you use a program like AmigaVision you can play
background music while displaying an Anim5 format file.
In addition AmigaVision will let you trigger sampled sounds
(8SVX format) when a designated frame of your animation is
displayed.

  I believe other programs like "The Director" will let
you do similar things as well.  As far as I know the Amiga
currently does not have a standard animation file format
which supports sound directly though.

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 120   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 09:38:29 +1100 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: FAQ posting?


On Mon, 10 Jan 1994, Andrew P. Vogel wrote:

> Okay... How frequently is the FAQ posted/updated? I've been anxiously
> awaiting the newest version.
>
> For that matter, how about the archives? When/how often are those posted and
> updated?
>
>

I can't answer about the FAQ but the archives are posted about a month
apart, i.e. when I have some free time. :-) The archive for December '93
(#45) will be out shortly and you'll be able to find it on wuarchive in
the amiga-boing/incoming/imagine directory.

Nik Vukovljak - IML Archivist - Coming to you live from the Bushfires in
                Sydney



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 121   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 16:32:20 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Retina, Imagine, + A4000/040... Problems *;o(


Alex writes:

> I had been using both 2.0 and 2.9 on a B2000 with an 030 and 10megs of 32bit
> ram on a 1024x768 Retina screen for some time and had NO problems at all.
> However, as soon as I tried to use it on the A4000 I ran into trouble.

> This problem only seems to be present when the Retina is bumping up the
> Imagine screen size above the default, but happens with both Imagine 2.9

This is a bug in 2.0 (hopefully Impulse will fix it for 3.0 because a
LOT of people run into this - of course, if we had real display database
support none of this would be necessary - hint hint! :-) )

There is a workaround which involves patching the binary - then you can
run it in whatever resolution your hardware can handle.  I do this for
896x628 or 1024x768 and it works fine.  (Both are a LOT nicer than
trying to run Imagine in the default 640x400).

Appended is a blurb on patching the 2.0 binary.  I'm not sure about 2.9
since I don't have it and don't intend to upgrade until I can get
Essence for the new attribute formats.

Hope this helps,

  - steve

PS - note carefully that the 0003E348 & 0003E349 addresses below are
incorrect - it should be 0003E384 (typo in the original post).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For Patching Version 2.0:

The hex values to open Imagine on a larger screen is:

   Hex position 0000BEFA and 0000BEFB  these two positions contain
        the Hex values of 00 and C8.  00C8 in dec is 200.  Imagine
        auto doubles this value if you've checked interlace in your
        prefs.  To get the full 482 height, just set the 00C8 to
        00F0.  00f0 in dec is 241.

   Hex position 0003E348 and 0003E349  these two positions contain
        the Hex values of 02 and 80.  0280 in dec is 640.  Change
        the 0280 to 02E0.  02E0 in bin is 736.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 122   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 17:57:00 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Re: Render time & Global size

> Greetings Imaginarians,
[long story of tedious rendering deleted]
>    Somebody mentioned that large world sizes render faster than small ones.

I believe that is large objects render faster than smaller objects...
small worlds render faster than large worlds.


Are your objects(in the frames that they are disappearing from) moving outside
of the realm where they existed in previous frames?  It was my impression that
Imagine took the smallest world when you set the global to 0 0 0.  If it only
looks at frame 1....


ie     frame 1                frame 6(where A starts to disappears)

     ____________             ____________
     |A         |             A          |
     |          |             |          |
     |         B|             |         B|
     ____________             ____________


where the box represents the world chosen by Imagine, edges being chosen to
enclose all objects but nothing more.  In frame 6 you have moved out of that
chosen box.

This is just a guess.  Anyone confirm this?


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 123   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
    id AA11734; Tue, 11 Jan 94 01:28:45 GMT
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 01:28:45 GMT
Subject: Re: ChessMelt.lha

>>>>> "Stanis" == humez  <[e-mail]> writes:

>> I just uploaded to ftp.wustl.edu in the "/pub/aminet/new"
>> directory, the files "ChessMelt.lha" and "ChessMelt.readme".

Stanis> I've just uploaded it, and I think it's corrupt... Is it my
Stanis> version of lha, which seems to be the latest, that won't work
Stanis> ? I'm very interested in these objects, so tell me how to get
Stanis> them, please...

    Did you use "binary" mode when you ftp?  The files should be:

-rw-r--r--  1 glewis    1350284 Jan 10 10:08 ChessMelt.lha
-rw-r--r--  1 glewis        435 Jan 10 14:45 ChessMelt.readme

and "lha l ChessMelt.lha" (using UNIX lha which I know is compatible
with the Amiga "lha" I have at home) gives me:

 PERMSSN  UID GID    SIZE  RATIO     STAMP    NAME
----------------- ------- ------ ------------ --------------------
rw-r--r--9311/15      435  66.2% Jan 10 10:06 ChessMelt.readme
rw-r--r--9311/15     2529  52.5% Jan 10 10:00 Melt.readme
rw-r--r--9311/15    64026  34.9% Jan 10 09:46 bishop.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    64026  34.9% Jan 10 09:48 bishop_000.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    64026  35.3% Jan 10 09:48 bishop_001.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    64026  35.3% Jan 10 09:48 bishop_002.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    64026  35.3% Jan 10 09:48 bishop_003.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    64026  35.3% Jan 10 09:48 bishop_004.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    64026  35.3% Jan 10 09:48 bishop_005.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    64026  35.3% Jan 10 09:48 bishop_006.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    64026  35.3% Jan 10 09:48 bishop_007.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    64026  35.3% Jan 10 09:48 bishop_008.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    64026  35.3% Jan 10 09:48 bishop_009.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15      766  48.9% Jan 10 09:55 chess.txt
rw-r--r--9311/15    83466  33.7% Jan 10 09:46 king.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    83466  33.9% Jan 10 09:48 king_000.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    83466  34.2% Jan 10 09:48 king_001.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    83466  34.3% Jan 10 09:48 king_002.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    83466  34.3% Jan 10 09:48 king_003.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    83466  34.3% Jan 10 09:48 king_004.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    83466  34.3% Jan 10 09:48 king_005.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    83466  34.3% Jan 10 09:48 king_006.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    83466  34.2% Jan 10 09:48 king_007.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    83466  34.1% Jan 10 09:48 king_008.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    83466  34.0% Jan 10 09:48 king_009.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    41478  40.5% Jan 10 09:46 knight.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    41478  38.5% Jan 10 09:48 knight_000.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    41478  40.5% Jan 10 09:48 knight_001.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    41478  40.7% Jan 10 09:48 knight_002.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    41478  40.7% Jan 10 09:48 knight_003.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    41478  40.8% Jan 10 09:48 knight_004.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    41478  40.9% Jan 10 09:48 knight_005.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    41478  40.8% Jan 10 09:48 knight_006.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    41478  40.9% Jan 10 09:48 knight_007.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    41478  40.9% Jan 10 09:48 knight_008.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    41478  40.8% Jan 10 09:48 knight_009.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  35.3% Jan 10 09:46 pawn.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  35.3% Jan 10 09:48 pawn_000.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  35.8% Jan 10 09:48 pawn_001.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  35.8% Jan 10 09:48 pawn_002.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  35.8% Jan 10 09:48 pawn_003.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  35.8% Jan 10 09:48 pawn_004.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  35.8% Jan 10 09:48 pawn_005.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  35.8% Jan 10 09:48 pawn_006.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  35.8% Jan 10 09:48 pawn_007.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  35.8% Jan 10 09:48 pawn_008.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  35.8% Jan 10 09:48 pawn_009.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    70186  34.7% Jan 10 09:46 queen.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    70186  34.7% Jan 10 09:48 queen_000.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    70186  35.0% Jan 10 09:48 queen_001.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    70186  35.0% Jan 10 09:48 queen_002.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    70186  35.0% Jan 10 09:48 queen_003.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    70186  35.0% Jan 10 09:48 queen_004.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    70186  35.0% Jan 10 09:48 queen_005.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    70186  35.0% Jan 10 09:48 queen_006.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    70186  35.0% Jan 10 09:48 queen_007.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    70186  35.0% Jan 10 09:48 queen_008.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    70186  35.0% Jan 10 09:48 queen_009.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  33.0% Jan 10 09:46 rook.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  31.8% Jan 10 09:48 rook_000.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  32.4% Jan 10 09:48 rook_001.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  32.4% Jan 10 09:48 rook_002.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  32.5% Jan 10 09:48 rook_003.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  32.4% Jan 10 09:48 rook_004.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  32.4% Jan 10 09:48 rook_005.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  32.4% Jan 10 09:48 rook_006.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  32.4% Jan 10 09:48 rook_007.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  32.4% Jan 10 09:48 rook_008.iob
rw-r--r--9311/15    43506  32.4% Jan 10 09:48 rook_009.iob
----------------- ------- ------ ------------ --------------------
 Total   69 files 3811578  35.3% Jan 10 10:08

                            -- Glenn

P.S.  Is it common for posts to the IML to take about 6 HOURS to come
back to the author???  Mine are.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 124   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Scott Lundholm <[e-mail]>
Subject: Attribute files to be uploaded
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 18:42:37 PST

Hi All,

     Just a short note to let everyone know that Soren Wind has sent me the
attribute files for Uploading to wuarchive. I will have them up there tonight,
hopefully by about 9:00pm Pacific. If anyone does not have FTP access, drop me
a line and I will send the original uuencoded files Soren sent me. I am also
going to find a way to convert the files to ascii ( for all the PC folks ).

                     THANKS SOREN, MUCH APPRICIATED :-)

                                                         Scott Lundholm

 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | Amiga 500/030 at 38Mhz w/68882 at |    Email [e-mail]    |
 | 50Mhz, 8Meg of 32-bit RAM, Bodega |                 Memeber                |
 | Bay w/105M,450M, & 1G Hard Drives,|    Redwood Empire Amiga Users Group    |
 | HP PaintJet, 16" HP Programmable  |      3D Rendering Enthusiast and       |
 | Multisynch w/Flicker Free Video.  |  graphics fanatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  |
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 125   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: "David A. Rollins" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bakattcha!
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 22:40:32 -0500 (EST)

Greetings to you, too. I, for one, look forward to your comments as
well as to how Impulse responds via your relay.
--
David A. Rollins, Jr. - Master Ninji - [e-mail]
Cybergraf Synthiotics - P.O. Box 5851, Hanover Center
Wilmington, NC 28401-0879  910-763-4115 (HOME)  910-791-0551 (OFFICE)


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 126   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 14:13:46 EST
From: [e-mail] (Graeme Mc Donough)
Subject: Re: Anims and Sound

>> Hello all;
>>       I was wondering how to get music mixed with my anims so when
>> vt or whatever is used sound comes with the anim?
>>       I realise 3.0 is supposed to have this feature but not knowing when
>> it will arrive I would like to get some things done now.
>>
>>                                       Thanks
>>                                        Lesk
>
>  Well if you use a program like AmigaVision you can play
>background music while displaying an Anim5 format file.
>In addition AmigaVision will let you trigger sampled sounds
>(8SVX format) when a designated frame of your animation is
>displayed.
>
>  I believe other programs like "The Director" will let
>you do similar things as well.  As far as I know the Amiga
>currently does not have a standard animation file format
>which supports sound directly though.


What is said is true, but if you want to have one of the best animation, sound,
video controller/player packages. Go and buy SCALA.  End of story.



/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-SUN
Graeme Mc Donough,
INTERNET: [e-mail]  (postmaster)
                                                                        ///
Monash University                                                      ///
Dpt of Earth Sciences                                                 ///
Clayton, Melbourne                                                \\\///
Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3168                                           \XX/
PHONE: [phone]
/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-TWIRL





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 127   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 23:17:56 EST
Subject: Hello, I'm new here.

I am new to the Internet and am accessing through AOL. I am interested in 3D
rendering packages and would like more information on this one. I am also a
novice at 3D rendering, so please go easy on me.  :-)  I hope someone out
there can help educate me in this area.

Thanking all in advance,


Michael Perchard
[e-mail]


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 128   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Scott Lundholm <[e-mail]>
Subject: Attributes Uploaded to wustl
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 20:35:47 PST

Hi All,

     I have uploaded the attribute files from Soren Wind to wuarchive.wustl.edu
into the following place:

                     /systems/amiga/boing/incoming/imagine/

The file names are:

                                   ATTS-1.LHA
                                   ATTS-2.LHA
                                   ATTS-3.LHA

If anyone has any problems getting the files, drop me a line and I will E-Mail
the files to you directly. Thanks again to Soren for providing these files
to the IML for thier use.  :-)

                                         Scott Lundholm

 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | Amiga 500/030 at 38Mhz w/68882 at |    Email [e-mail]    |
 | 50Mhz, 8Meg of 32-bit RAM, Bodega |                 Memeber                |
 | Bay w/105M,450M, & 1G Hard Drives,|    Redwood Empire Amiga Users Group    |
 | HP PaintJet, 16" HP Programmable  |      3D Rendering Enthusiast and       |
 | Multisynch w/Flicker Free Video.  |  graphics fanatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  |
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 129   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: v2.9 Potential bug morphing
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 1:24:10 EST

> I was morphing an object with 2 states between the 2 states. There
> was a sequence of iff's mapped on the object. I got an error
> stating "can't load path/picout"  Picout is the root of the file sequence
> name. they were numbered picout.0001, picout.0002...... At first
> I assumed that this was a problem with states. So as a test I took
> a primitive plane and mapped the same sequence on it. Another primitive plane
> had the same sequence applied. I set up a simple 10 frame animation
> with plane 1 morphing into plane 2. SAME ERROR.
>
> I know I've done this many times in 2.0 so as a sanity check I set up
> the same simple two planes morphing animation. It rendered w/o a
> problem.
>

 I phoned Impulse today and confirmed that this is a known problem in 2.9.
I was told that it is already fixed for 3.0.  So if your morphing objects
don't apply a sequence of brush maps. single images work fine, however.

                    |
steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 130   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 07:03:29 -0600 (CST)
From: Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Attribute files to be uploaded

On Mon, 10 Jan 1994, Scott Lundholm wrote:

> a line and I will send the original uuencoded files Soren sent me. I am also
> going to find a way to convert the files to ascii ( for all the PC folks ).

If the PC users are using 2.9PC, the attributes will work fine (no red
shift).  No need to convert to ASCII.  That is as long as the file names
are 8 characters and under.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Cliff Lee
 [e-mail]
 "Everything will work out if you let it!" Cheap Trick



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 131   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 09:52:09 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Re: Greetings !


>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm Scott Kirvan - I'm presently working at Impulse doing textures, FX, some
> other side projects for imagine, and probably some work on applications beyond
> the scope of Imagine.

Cool!  How hard are FX to program?  Would something like Glenns T1000 melt
work as an FX (Ofcourse, how would you know without seeing his code)?

Did you possibly do the deformations, twist, bend, etc?  If so, will you be
working to make bend look more like a bend, instead of 2 shears(like ETs finger
bends instead of like an inch worm crawling)?

>
> I just recently (within the last week) got this Internet account through a
> friend of mine, and have only been on the IML for the last few days.  This is
> NOT through Impulse - so if my mail begins to take up too much disk space, I
> may lose the account.

Welcome.  Just keep deleting all the noise posts and that shouldn't be a
problem:)

>
> My interest in sub'ing here is personal - not an official response by
> Impulse.  Impulse does know I'm going to be keeping track of the net on a
> daily basis, and has given me a green light to speak freely about what's
> going on in house.
>
So, tell us a little more.  Do you have a degree in comp sci?  How'd you get
on with Impulse?  What kind of systems do you work on at Impulse?  What
other systems do you have there?

Have you guys considered using SAS C for Imagine?  That is, assuming you use
C.

That should be more than enough questions for know....


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 132   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 06:46:28 -0700
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Making Imagine Run Faster
X-Organization: VeriFone
X-Ps-Qualifiers:
 /FONT=Courier-Bold/LINES=66/LEFT_MARGIN=36/CALCULATE/TOP_MARGIN=36/BOTTOM_MARGIN=36
X-Envelope-To: email.sp.paramax.com!imagine
X-Vms-Cc: JEFF_W1


>> My attempt here was to turn all power to imagine so it would
>> really cook
>[by running Imagine with a really high priority]

>This is not a good idea for several reasons.  First, if you use a high
>enough priority, you can conflict with system "things" such as the
>processes which handle disk I/O.  That's bound to cause problems.

  I agree, you really don't gain anything by pushing up Imagine's
priority.  Just don't run other programs if you don't want any
slow down.

  The best way to squeeze a little extra performance out of Imagine
(on an Amiga) is to display a 320x200x1 IFF pic (all black to prevent
burn-in of your monitor) and bring that screen to the front while
Imagine is rendering.  The Imagine Screen is 640x400x4 and will
steal about 5%-10% of your CPU cycles because of DMA contention.

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 133   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 11:35:54 -0400 (EST)
From: ecorbin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Anims and Sound



On Mon, 10 Jan 1994, Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529 wrote:

> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 14:42:25 -0700
> From: Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529 <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Anims and Sound

[deleted]

> you do similar things as well.  As far as I know the Amiga
> currently does not have a standard animation file format
> which supports sound directly though.
>
> -Jeff Wahaus-
> [e-mail]
>

Actually, I think ANIM allows for sounds to be embedded, but not many
anim players take advantage of it.  Can anybody confirm this?  (Notice
that's sound(8VSX), not music, so it probably won't help the original poster.)

Earl Corbin
[e-mail]





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 134   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Joe C Solinsky <[e-mail]>
    id AA00321; Tue, 11 Jan 94 08:27:29 -0800
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 08:27:29 -0800
Subject: Imagine 3.0

Hello,
    I have been totally out of it for far too long.  I
even missed the AmiCON meetings (David Watters: please
update my mailing of the AmiCON newsletter to the following
address:

532 Athens St.
Riverside, CA 92507

)
So I was wondering if Imagine 3.0 is out yet or not.  Oh
yeah, today is my birthday, and I am twenty.  It is good to
be back on line.

-Joe Solinsky

CCAD drop-out / new CS major at UC Riverside


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 135   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Alex... <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: JPEG in 3.0
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 16:51:56 +0000 (GMT)

> Hi Imagine'ers...
>
> Does anyone know whether Imagine V3.0 will be able to use jpeg pictures as
> backdrops/brushwraps ect.. ?

    Hmmm, I guess it may be a possabilty if someone mentioned the
    word "DataTypes" to the guys at Impluse - but then that couldn't
    be ported to the PC could it *;o)

    Seriously though, as a tempory work around is there some way to
    run a program of some form or description that would intercept
    any program that tried to open a JPEG file, and feed it the
    JPEG converted into an IFF24 instead. This would be great because
    it would save loads of disk space, and JPEG is a great format for
    storing maps etc.

    Just wondering,
            Alex...

%-----\|/------------------- #include <.siggy.h> --------------------------%
%    (o o)     [e-mail]         -=* Retina's Rule *Bo) *=-  %
%-oOO-(_)-OOo- CSE Student @ Warwick Uni. UK  "All opinions are just mine" %


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 136   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date:  Tue, 11 Jan 1994 12:16:34 -0500
 [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.418:11.00.94.17.16.35]
From: "rob (r.d.) hounsell" <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Re: Render time & Global size

Tom,

> where the box represents the world chosen by Imagine, edges being chosen to
> enclose all objects but nothing more.  In frame 6 you have moved out of that
> chosen box.
>
> This is just a guess.  Anyone confirm this?

  This *wasn't* true in my case. I had non-moving walls that were slowly being
eaten away, kind of like that ST:TNG episode where the Enterprise is slowly
disappearing as the Universe it is in contracts.

Rob
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Rob Hounsell                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@NMERH53           |
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| System Performance:                    PHONE: [phone]                |
| Paradigm Club Design Team. Dept. PS27  ESN: 395-2904                        |
| Northern Telecom Public Switching                                           |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 137   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Alex... <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Greetings !
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 18:04:13 +0000 (GMT)

    [Stuff deleted to save reading time!]

> > My interest in sub'ing here is personal - not an official response by
> > Impulse.  Impulse does know I'm going to be keeping track of the net on a
> > daily basis, and has given me a green light to speak freely about what's
> > going on in house.
> >
> So, tell us a little more.  Do you have a degree in comp sci?  How'd you get
> on with Impulse?  What kind of systems do you work on at Impulse?  What
> other systems do you have there?

    Ditto...

> Have you guys considered using SAS C for Imagine?  That is, assuming you use
> C.

    Thats a really good question! What language _IS_ Imagine
    written in?

    TTFN,
        Alex...

%-----\|/------------------- #include <.siggy.h> --------------------------%
%    (o o)     [e-mail]         -=* Retina's Rule *Bo) *=-  %
%-oOO-(_)-OOo- CSE Student @ Warwick Uni. UK  "All opinions are just mine" %


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 138   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Mike McCool)
Subject: Not another bug!
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 11:15:07 -0800 (PST)

Long as we're on the subject, there's one in 2.0 that bugs me.  I
haven't tried it out on 2.9, so hopefully this is a moot post.
    But when you're doing multiple brushmaps over the same
object,--you know, wrap pic.0001-pic.000* onto the same object over a
series of *frames--the damn stage editor won't give you a
quickrender.  It spits up this request: error loading brush,
can't find pic.0001.0001.  Same thing next frame, can't find
pic.0002.0001.  It's looking for an extra decimal and four digits
that aren't there.
    I even resorted to renaming all my pics, adding the extra
point and digits--but then, when you go out into the Project
Editor, to begin actual rendering, it's back to normal, looking
for pic.000*, which of course it can't find now, since I've renamed
everything pic.000*.0001.
    It's a bug you can work your way around, but it's still a
bug. I guess before I wrote this, I should have tried out
2.9--but it's so much more buggy even than 2.0, I've almost given
up trying.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 139   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Subject: AAnswers to (some) questions...
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 11:44:08 CST


Greetings,

This is very long, but I'll try to answer at least some of the questions
from this weekend.

Tom Setzer:
>How about the action editors FX format....

The FX format is going to be released around the same time the new
texture format is.  Should be pretty cool for any programmers that
want to model their own exlodes/falls/bounces/etc...

W. Bruce Moore:
>People do not want different file reqs, we want *STANDAR* file reqs.

We understand that you want the ASL lib stuff put in.  Problem is,
as Mike said, that is not our immediate priority.  Please keep in mind
that we are developing on both the Amiga and the PC platforms.  We
want to keep Imagine the same on both machines - (we should be getting
rid of the cross-platform-path-dependancies soon).  By hooking the
ASL's into Imagine, we would have to write, at least a portion of,
the ASL functions and requesters for the PC.  Right now we're more
concerned with getting features in than with wether or not our reqs
are archaic.  This isn't to say it won't be done, its just not an
immediate priority.

"The greatest thing about standards is, you've got so many to choose
from"  :-)   (I forget who said it...)

>As for the ever shifting object and texture formats...
>...they should also accept resposibility for maintaining backward
>compatibility within published interfaces.

After watching the posts for the last week, there seems to be a
misunderstanding about this.  The texture interface format has never
been published.  Until recently, the texture hook was too limited in
scope and publishing it would have limited forward development.  By
V3.0 the texture hook will be much more versitile and dynamic -
I'm sure everyone will be happy with how it turns out.  In reference
to the "ever shifting object" format - The published object format
is the TDDD format.  This format is still fully compatible with the
current software even though Imagine uses and writes a richer format
than that which was published.


-andrew vogel:
>...about ARexx... [Mike] said that for the mst part no one [at] (Impulse)
>has a use for ARexx.... He using the staff of Impulse as a representative
>cross-secion of their userbase.

Mike doesn't use us as a cross-section of the userbase - if you knew us,
you would know what I mean - were not much of a cross section of anything.
Putting ARexx hooks into Imagine would probably be worth a considerable
re-engineering of the way things work now.  We could hack in some hooks,
but if were going to do it, we would rather do it right.  There just isn't
(at present) the time to screw around with Arexx when we want to get this
thing completed and shipped.  If it's going to be in there, it probably
won't happen until 4.0 or sometime during the service contract stuff.

Lesk:

Thanx fo the synopsis of recent IML discussion about V3.0 needs/wishes.



Stephen J Gowdy:
>I find it hard to believe he [Mike] is a programmer. Is he?

No.

I really appreaciate the explanations of what the 040 optimization stuff
is about.  I spoke with SAS about the 040 opt stuff, and really didn't get
any good answers - just a lot of "this has been optimized, and that has been
optimized," not how or what was done to accomplish the optimizations.  What
Mike had meant by the code being already optimized, is that the code was
really gone over with a fine tooth comb, and in a textbook version of
optimization (counting clock cycles, rewriting trancendentals, etc), the
machine code was optimized.  After talking with SAS I saw little that they
were doing that was going to make any difference to imagine's performance.
The info I've gotten off the net about the interrupt handling is interesting
and I'll look into it again.

From: [e-mail] (Wong Kin Ming)
probs gettin Im 3.0 from AmFormat mag...

dan mahoney [e-mail]:
>MISSING ENCODING VECTOR.

known bug - should be fixed - sorry, no work-around (yet).


Jff Walkup:
>just load all the bjects once, and let me move thru the frames as fast as
>it can redraw..

There's a new gig in stage that rips through the "make" in nearly real time.
Very cool...

Yury German:
>many people want REAL lens Flare with alot of things dded to it instead of a
>texture or post porciessing lens flare

A bit of a defense of the Lensflar texture:  The texture wasn't supposed to
be Impulse's be-all and end-all responce to the lens flare request.  It was
written to do some cool effects that I was shooting for - it worked really
cool so Impulse released it with the rest of the textures.  We are going to
be doing a lens flare - it will be post-processed, and here's why:  The lens
flare that goes on happens inside the cameras lens, and is not to be rendered
into 3d space where it can be obstructed by objects (for example, look at Nov
93 AmigaWorld (Hollywood issue) page 29 - the wing of the F18 obstructs part
of the "realistic" lens flare - FAKEY!).  Halos and auras(sp) caused by
atmospherics are a different matter - they can be obstructed.

Sorry for hoggin' the bandwidth...           sk...




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 140   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
Subject: Re: Making Imagine Run Faster
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 13:37:57 CST

|  The best way to squeeze a little extra performance out of Imagine
|(on an Amiga) is to display a 320x200x1 IFF pic (all black to prevent
|burn-in of your monitor) and bring that screen to the front while
|Imagine is rendering.  The Imagine Screen is 640x400x4 and will
|steal about 5%-10% of your CPU cycles because of DMA contention.

    Jeff,

    I'm not sure that I understand this.  I usually generate my frames
    in the Project editor.  I turn my monitor off and do something
    else around the house while rendering.  Is Imagine still using cpu
    time for display even though the monitor is off?

    Also  what if I just pull the workbench screen forward, would that
    do the same thing, or am I missing the point?

    Dale


        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 141   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 14:29:55 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Good question about fog...

>From comp.sys.amiga.graphics:
>Sorry to post this, but I don't know the Imagine mailing list address.

To subscribe send a mail message with the word SUBSCRIBE in the subject and
body(I forgot which one) and send it to:
[e-mail]

I am posting this to the mailing list since it could use some posts like this:

>I'm
>having problems trying to pinpoint the right numbers to use for Imagine's
>three global fog settings ( top, bottom, length ).  Worley's book seems to
>imply that all is fine as long as length isn't 0.  I'm trying to create
>a simple city scene w/ skyscrapers, w/ a blue fog rising from the ground
>and reaching halfway up the buildings.  However, the fog settings don't
>seem to correlate w/ my Imagine units in Stage very well, and only after
>MUCH trial and error and test renders did I achieve something along the line
>of what I was looking for.  What EXACTLY do the three settings mean?  Are they
>defined by the camera view or something more bizarre?  What is the relationship
>between top/bottom and length?
>
>Thanks to whomever kind soul answers this question,
>Tim

Anyone with an answer, reply to Tim as well as the IML.

Tims address is [e-mail] (That was on the post anyway...hope its
right)


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 142   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 11 Jan 94 16:30:20 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)
Subject: Cleanup bug.


Tell my dudes' :)

This morning i got up at 6'o'clock and turned on my machine, i had an
animation to finish, then i started rendering before going to work..

And ofcause, when i got home it had stopped at frame 16 out of 200 because,
the bug with CLEANUP... "it just stops" ?

Is there noway to help this, or do i have to keep an eye on my machine while
it renders the next 3 days. ?

   _:        Sren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
   |  A2000c/68030/68882/9/345/33Mhz   /_______\                    |
   .                                                                .

... Even a hawk is an eagle among crows.
-Via DDDGate 1.45 @ 2:230/418.0, 11 Jan 94  20:05:30


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 143   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
Subject: Re: JPEG in 3.0
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 15:52:35 CST

|    Seriously though, as a tempory work around is there some way to
|    run a program of some form or description that would intercept
|    any program that tried to open a JPEG file, and feed it the
|    JPEG converted into an IFF24 instead. This would be great because
|    it would save loads of disk space, and JPEG is a great format for
|    storing maps etc.

    ADPRo converts JPEG files.  this is a plug for Arexx support.  An
    arexx script could do the conversion through ADPro before loading
    into Imagine.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 144   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 10:27:10 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Paul Wehner)
Subject: JPEG in 3.0 etc.

The question was asked as to weather jpeg images will be loadable in
Imagine 3.0. In fact they are right now with the commercial program
Pegger. I use it to automatically decompress jpeg images into 24 bit data for
brushmaps,global maps, and  backdrop images in Imagine all the time. it works
perfectly. Just tell Pegger which directory to monitor and whenever an
application tries to pull something out Pegger pops a requestor on that apps
screen saying its being decompress. I use it with Imagine,Dctv,Dpaint and just
about any other graphic program. I should not that this is also possible with
arexx and adpro running in the backround but my arexx ability is retarded.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 145   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
    id <[e-mail]> with CCTORFC Tue Jan 11 23:55:10 1994
Date: 11 Jan 94 03:31:00 -0800
Subject: Re: AAnswers to (some) questions...

     First of all, I appreciate the fact that you are here to answer a
     few questions.

**************include***************
Jff Walkup:
>just load all the bjects once, and let me move thru the frames as fast as
>it can redraw..

There's a new gig in stage that rips through the "make" in nearly real time.
Very cool...
**********end include***************

     The new "make" sounds cool, but we would like to be able to goto
     different frames without having to reload every object in the
     frame.  If the object(s) don't change, why reload?  Think of an
     animation with 1000 frames and multiple objects exceeding 300K
     each.  It takes a long time just go to the next frame to edit,
     regardless of quickdraw or quickedges. On the positive side, I
     get a lot of reading done while waiting for all of the objects to
     reload.  This change would make quite a difference to those of us
     who work with large animations.

     Ed


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 146   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Greetings !
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 15:11:00 PST


Hi Scott,
   Good to see you here!  Speaking for myself, I think it is a real
improvement for IML to have a representative from Impulse, even on a
voluntary basis.  Considering the content of the messages here over the past
few months, you might regret logging on.   Sometimes, the most harmless or
innocent comment or observation will result in a furious flame rampage.
   Apparently, there are quite a few bugs left, and new ones added, in
Imagine 2.9.  I just got it and haven't run into any serious ones yet but I
haven't explored it to the extent that other people have.  Personally, I
like Imagine and think it is a very powerful program.
   After overcoming some of the familiarity hurdles, I have grown accustomed
to the organization and operation of the program.  But, I am always running
across new, unfamiliar territory, learning something new and different, and
thinking about how to do more things in different and better ways.  A lot of
people that frequent this list have really helped me out with this learning
process.
   Maybe I can be less serious than others since I don't make a living from
3D modeling, rendering, or animating (I wish I could).  So, I am not under
the pressure of deadlines and production schedules.  But I do have the 3D
"bug".  And, if you pay attention to television and the movies, so are more
and more people.
  The two most prominent examples are seaQuest DSV and Babylon 5.  The fact
is that Lightwave is producing some fantastic imagery that Imagine does not
seem capable of.  Several recent episodes of seaQuest have shown examples of
organic 3D effects like flowing lava, translucent icebergs, and the flames
around a space capsule re-entering the atmosphere.  If there is a way to
model these effects in Imagine, it is a total mystery to me.
  Recently, there have been a couple of animations produced on 3D Studio
uploaded to MS-DOS oriented 3D-theme bulletin boards, one showing a
velociraptor walking and the other of a walking woman.  Yes, I know 3D
Studio is a $3000 US program, but these animations are really impressive.
 The dinosaur skin wrinkles with each step and the muscles on the woman
bulge as she walks.  The images are incredibly lifelike.
  My point is that the competition in the 3D arena is heating up rapidly.
 Of course, power users with a lot of resources (meaning lots of money) are
always going to be able to do more and better.  Imagine has a lot of bang
for the small buck but even the most loyal customer is going to re-evaluate
how much hair-pulling and time wasting he wants to go through to achieve the
desired output and whether the savings of a few hundred dollars is worth it.
 There has been a lot promised for Imagine 3.0 and beyond but, even for all
the improvements, may be lagging in capabilities by the time it is ready.
 Allen Hastings says Lightwave 4.0 is nearing completion and it will have
even more effects and improvements, some that current users haven't even
dreamed of yet!
   Anyway, enough waste of bandwidth (probably get flamed from somebody for
this).  I will look forward to hearing about your efforts on textures and
F/X, insights on developments at Impulse, and whatever else you have the
time and inclination to provide.  Thanks for lending me your ear (or eyes,
monitor, cpu, harddrive, etc. to be more correct).
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
Subject: Greetings !
Date: Monday, January 10, 1994 4:46PM

Greetings,

I'm Scott Kirvan - I'm presently working at Impulse doing textures, FX, some

other side projects for imagine, and probably some work on applications
beyond
the scope of Imagine.

I just recently (within the last week) got this Internet account through a
friend of mine, and have only been on the IML for the last few days.  This
is
NOT through Impulse - so if my mail begins to take up too much disk space, I
may lose the account.

My interest in sub'ing here is personal - not an official response by
Impulse.  Impulse does know I'm going to be keeping track of the net on a
daily basis, and has given me a green light to speak freely about what's
going on in house.

Anyway, I just wanted to introduce myself and say hi.
later...   sk...



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 147   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 15:48:37 -0700
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE^2:Making Imagine Run Faster
X-Organization: VeriFone
X-Ps-Qualifiers:
 /FONT=Courier-Bold/LINES=66/LEFT_MARGIN=36/CALCULATE/TOP_MARGIN=36/BOTTOM_MARGIN=36
X-Envelope-To: email.sp.paramax.com!imagine
X-Vms-Cc: JEFF_W1


>|  The best way to squeeze a little extra performance out of Imagine
>|(on an Amiga) is to display a 320x200x1 IFF pic (all black to prevent
>|burn-in of your monitor) and bring that screen to the front while
>|Imagine is rendering.  The Imagine Screen is 640x400x4 and will
>|steal about 5%-10% of your CPU cycles because of DMA contention.

>    Jeff,
>
>    I'm not sure that I understand this.  I usually generate my frames
>    in the Project editor.  I turn my monitor off and do something
>    else around the house while rendering.  Is Imagine still using cpu
>    time for display even though the monitor is off?
>
  Yes, if the Imagine screen is "in front" then your rendering will slow
down slightly.  I never did understand why they use a 16 color screen
for the project Screen.  Using a 4 color (2 bitplane) Project screen would
not slow down rendering in a measurable way.  Not only that but the
current 16 color screen in use only uses 4 of the 16 colors anyway.

  Turning off your monitor will prevent burn-in but will not effect
performance at all.  The display signals are still being sent out the
port.

>    Also  what if I just pull the workbench screen forward, would that
>    do the same thing, or am I missing the point?
>
>       Dale

  Yes, bringing the Workbench Screen to the front will have the same
speed up effect as long as your Workbench is 4 colors or less and is not
using Overscan.  Oh yea, I should mention that Overscan makes the
DMA contention worse.  So if you really want to slow down Imagine's
rendering then patch Imagine to use an overscan 736x482 screen and keep
the project screen in front while rendering ;-)

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 148   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 11 Jan 94 07:51:27 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)
Subject: ChessMelt.lha


 [ 10 Jan 94 ] [ [e-mail] -> me ]

 hid>  Is anyone going to upload attributes on aminet ? I'm also very
 hid> interested. I'll be able to find the right attributes for my bicycle,
 hid> and then I'll upload it.

Scott Lundholm is going to do the job for me, almost 1MB af attributes, i
used all weekend to sort out in those i had.

So lets just wait for a message from him....

How are you doing Scott ?

   _:        Sren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
   |  A2000c/68030/68882/9/345/33Mhz   /_______\                    |
   .                                                                .

... Never try to outstubborn a cat.
-Via DDDGate 1.45 @ 2:230/418.0, 11 Jan 94  09:21:48


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 149   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 11 Jan 94 20:45:00 EST
From: "Ross Knepper" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AAnswers to (some) questions...

[e-mail] said:
>A bit of a defense of the Lensflar texture:  The texture wasn't supposed to
>be Impulse's be-all and end-all responce to the lens flare request.  It was
>written to do some cool effects that I was shooting for - it worked really
>cool so Impulse released it with the rest of the textures.  We are going to
>be doing a lens flare - it will be post-processed, and here's why:  The lens
>flare that goes on happens inside the cameras lens, and is not to be rendered
>into 3d space where it can be obstructed by objects (for example, look at Nov
>93 AmigaWorld (Hollywood issue) page 29 - the wing of the F18 obstructs part
>of the "realistic" lens flare - FAKEY!).  Halos and auras(sp) caused by
>atmospherics are a different matter - they can be obstructed.

Lens flare should not be rendered during the normal rendering process.  This
would be, as you said, a waste of processor time.  What people mean by saying
that lens flare shouldn't be postprocessed is that it must be the same program
that renders the rest of the picture, because another program can't detect a
light source which is off the screen but might still cause lens flare.

One suggestion though:  instead of covering up already-rendered background in
postprocessing the lens flare, why not preprocess it, which would reduce the
number of pixels left to be raytraced?

 -ross



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 150   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)
Subject: Re: Making Imagine Run Faster
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 20:48:21 EST

>
> |  The best way to squeeze a little extra performance out of Imagine
> |(on an Amiga) is to display a 320x200x1 IFF pic (all black to prevent
> |burn-in of your monitor) and bring that screen to the front while
> |Imagine is rendering.  The Imagine Screen is 640x400x4 and will
> |steal about 5%-10% of your CPU cycles because of DMA contention.
>
>     Jeff,
>
>     I'm not sure that I understand this.  I usually generate my frames
>     in the Project editor.  I turn my monitor off and do something
>     else around the house while rendering.  Is Imagine still using cpu
>     time for display even though the monitor is off?
>
>     Also  what if I just pull the workbench screen forward, would that
>     do the same thing, or am I missing the point?
>
>     Dale
>
>
>         ____________________________^____________________________
>         dale r. rogers
>
>         Intergraph Corporation
>         Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
>         [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
>                                     .
>

    I really cannot see what the need for speed is about if you are
already using an Amiga 4000 or 2000 or 3000 or 500 or 1200 and you have a
040 or 030 or 020, sheesh??????

    So you average rendering speed per frame is what, 6 minutes????
unless you are doing a 1 hour and 45 minute motion animation, I guess I
could understand the frustation, but if your frames are under the 100
mark, you really should thank Impulse that the darn things smokes in speed.

Tyrone Marshall

NO fancy subtext, it just seems PC.




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 151   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 03:06:00 BST
Subject: Lens Flare texture

Just a reminder that 2.9's implementation of lens Flare is a texture, so....
(1) more than one flare per object is possible (2) it can be tacked (3) it
can be morphed by changing the parameters (4) it can be morphed by mutating
the object (like Forms stuff). All of this means some interesting possibilities


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 152   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 03:01:00 BST
Subject: Sound and Imagine

Just a few weeks ago I bought the new Anim Workshop from Axiom. Among it's
various features is the ability to perfectly sync IFF8SVX sound files to
an animation. It does this by embedding extra control info into the Op5,7,
or 8 format anim file. This extra ability includes being able to pad jiffies
on a frame by frame basis so as to be able to completely "smooth out" any
delta variance, and to give priority to the various sounds you've added in
addition to selectable channel priority. It ships with a freely distributable
player that can read the extra control info. Very cool.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 153   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
Subject: Re: Making Imagine Run Faster
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 23:27:08 PST

>     So you average rendering speed per frame is what, 6 minutes????

No, more like 25, 45 or 90 mins per frame on my A3000 - about half
that on the 4000.


> unless you are doing a 1 hour and 45 minute motion animation, I guess I
> could understand the frustation, but if your frames are under the 100
> mark, you really should thank Impulse that the darn things smokes in speed.

Well, 1h45m at 6m per frame = 18,900 hours or 2+ YEARS of rendering.

For the more realistic (if not conservative) 22 mins/frame:  100 frames
(which is barely over 3 seconds of animation) would take 37 hours.  A
day and-a-half for 3 measly secs!

Most of my animations are around 20 seconds, take 25 mins/frame so
that's 250 hours or over 10 days.  Ten days for twenty seconds...

If I wanted to go crazy (eEeheheh) and do a full blown 5 minute short
film; something worthy of a Siggraph tape quality-wise, we're talking
9000 frames at maybe 1.5 hours each = 13,500 hours or a YEAR AND A HALF
of rendering time alone...

Yes, I think we could all use a little more speed!!

I mean hey, I started doing this with Sculpt on an A500 where one Lo-res
frame would take 18 hours or more - so I'm pleased when I can render on
2 or 3 A4000's overnight and have a few seconds of animation done in the
morning, but it's still not FAST ENOUGH.  I want it now, NOW, N O W !!!! ;^)

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 154   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 00:58:33 PST
From: [e-mail] (Gerard Menendez)
Subject: Pegger !?




Ya know, my mail reader always puts the sender in "from" so I
can't "Reply" to the list. :(


Paul

Is Pegger a commercial program?  Sounds great!

Gerard


--
Gerard Menendez     Seattle, WA
[e-mail]


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 155   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 07:10:10 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Making Imagine Run Faster
    <[e-mail]>



> already using an Amiga 4000 or 2000 or 3000 or 500 or 1200 and you have a

>     So you average rendering speed per frame is what, 6 minutes????

Well, I have a 4000, and my longest render to date was approximately 4
days for a single frame. :-)

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 156   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 07:16:01 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Anims and Sound


[sorry if this appears twice; it seemed to bounce the first time I tried
and I don't think it made it to the list]


Earl Corbin writes:

> Actually, I think ANIM allows for sounds to be embedded, but not many
> anim players take advantage of it.  Can anybody confirm this?  (Notice

You're right; it does.  IFF files have a hierarchical structure in which
you can embed any sort of data you wish to.  For example, with each
animation frame you could put a music sample, or a bit of text, or an
entire SMUS musical score.  Or you could reverse that and store a series
of text strings, and attach an animation to each one.  Its quite
flexible; I think IFF was a better file format in 1985 than most things
are even today.

That doesn't mean that the code reading an IFF anim file can understand
that sound data, but it will transparently ignore what it can't
understand if it is written even vaguely correctly.  But IFF defines
format not semantics.  Applications still have to agree on things like
"If I see a sound chunk attached to an animation delta chunk, that means
I'm supposed to start playing it on any free channel".

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 157   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
Subject: Re: Making Imagine Run Faster
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 9:14:42 CST

|    I really cannot see what the need for speed is about if you are
|already using an Amiga 4000 or 2000 or 3000 or 500 or 1200 and you have a
|040 or 030 or 020, sheesh??????
|
|    So you average rendering speed per frame is what, 6 minutes????
|unless you are doing a 1 hour and 45 minute motion animation, I guess I
|could understand the frustation, but if your frames are under the 100
|mark, you really should thank Impulse that the darn things smokes in speed.

    Whoa!!  Any trick that be used to speed up rendering is a benefit.
    All these tricks accumulate to help quite a bit.  I did a 362
    frame animation recently which gave me approx 12 seconds of
    animation.  It took about 2 days to render (more like 36 hours).

    Whether that's slow or fast depends on what your comparing it to.
    Still 36 hours is 36 hours.  If I can shorten that to 24 hours, I
    can use the other 12 hours for other things; like maybe post
    production.

    It's no flame to IMpulse, just a desire for more speed.  BTW, I
    have a 2500/30.

    Dale


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 158   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 08:14:08 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)
Subject: Re: ChessMelt.lha

> [ 10 Jan 94 ] [ [e-mail] -> me ]
>
> hid>  Is anyone going to upload attributes on aminet ? I'm also very
> hid> interested. I'll be able to find the right attributes for my bicycle,
> hid> and then I'll upload it.
>
>Scott Lundholm is going to do the job for me, almost 1MB af attributes, i
>used all weekend to sort out in those i had.
>
>So lets just wait for a message from him....
>
>How are you doing Scott ?
>
>   _:        Sren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
>  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
>  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
>  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
>   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
>   |  A2000c/68030/68882/9/345/33Mhz   /_______\                    |
>   .                                                                .
>
>... Never try to outstubborn a cat.
>-Via DDDGate 1.45 @ 2:230/418.0, 11 Jan 94  09:21:48
        The big question is which is Soren going to run out of first, great
attributes or great signature quotes!!!! Please keep both coming Soren.
                                        later,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Toasters don't burn toast. People burn toast."
                        Curator Seattle Toaster Museum

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 159   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 08:27:20 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Answers to (some) questions...



Scott Kirvan writes:

> This is very long, but I'll try to answer at least some of the questions

First of all, I think its great for someone from Impulse to be active of
the IML.  Thanks.  Here's hoping you are able to find time to keep doing
it :-)

I have a few comments on what you wrote:

> >People do not want different file reqs, we want *STANDAR* file reqs.

> ASL's into Imagine, we would have to write, at least a portion of,
> the ASL functions and requesters for the PC.  Right now we're more

Would it not be possible to simply have a simple wrapper function?  Ie,
you call "imagine_file_request", and it calls either ASL (on the amiga)
or your own custom requester (on the PC).  That way, only one place in
all of Imagine would have to be changed, and ASL specifics would be
isolated.  ASL is really easy to use anyway.  I can't see it being all
that hard to replace the custom requester just for the Amiga side.

ASL really does have a huge advantage that it can be transparently
replaced by the user on a system-wide basis with a requester of the
user's choice.  To me this sounds like a pretty easy change for a big
improvement in usability.  (No offense intended, but I really *hate* the
current Imagine requesters :-) The ASL one has a lot of advantages,
including file completion so you don't have to use the darned mouse as
much, direct drag-and-drop features, user font support, and lots more).

> Putting ARexx hooks into Imagine would probably be worth a considerable
> re-engineering of the way things work now.  We could hack in some hooks,
> but if were going to do it, we would rather do it right.  There just isn't
[ ARexx won't happen till 4.0]

Agreed.  Personally, this is *way up there* on my desired feature list
(in fact, probably #1 right now).  I've commented on this topic before.
Its great that the existence of ARexx is being acknowledged by Impulse
finally.  I can wait until 4.0 if that's when it'll be, as long as I am
able to really believe that Impulse won't ignore it (because it doesn't
exist on MS-DOS or for whatever other reason).  I have a number of ideas
about this and places where I think it's essential for Imagine to have
ARexx capabilities.  I am more than willing to provide input on these
things when it comes time for Impulse to add ARexx support.

Also, I think its a good sign that Impulse is going to publish their
texture and effect formats.  I see that as an extremely positive step
for Imagine.

Anyway, thanks for commenting on some of this stuff, Scott.  Rarely
before have I ever had the impression that impulse was actually
*listening* to what users were saying.  Keep it up :-)

And, as long as you're listening, here's some more things I'd really
like to see in Imagine :-)

 * Support of the default system font instead of hardcoded "Topaz 8".
   In high resolutions, 8 point fonts get *really* tiny.  Its hard for
   me to read the Imagine menu & gadget text in 1024x768.

 * Rendering engines for other platforms.  I have both an Amiga (which I
   use for all 3D stuff now), and a 486/66 PC (which is currently
   dedicated to games).  I'd like to be able to buy an Imagine rendering
   engine (separate from the modeler) for the PC, so I could use the PC
   to render frames at the same time that the Amiga rendered other
   frames, assuming I've modeled everything on the Amiga.  I'd like this
   to be as easy as possible - it must be able to read the *exact* same
   projects and render them in an identical manner.  I know there are
   issues with long filenames and whatnot, but perhaps a server program
   on the Amiga can send read the files and send the needed data over
   RS-232 to the PC.  I don't know the right answer, I just know I don't
   want to waste all those MFLOPS sitting inside my PC case :-) Having
   Unix render engines would be nice too.  DEC Alpha, Sun, HP-PA, etc.

 * Start up an AppIcon on the workbench for direct drag-and-drop.  You
   should be able to use it to assign brushmaps to objects, read objects
   into detail or stage editors, and maybe other things also.

 * Have default paths for the file requesters which are stored between
   invocations of Imagine.  I always hate having to specify all my paths
   from scratch every time I start up.  Granted, you can do something
   such as assign "I:" to the location in question from a shell window
   and then use that in the requester instead of typing the full path,
   but that shouldn't be necessary anyway.

 * (This has been mentioned) Support datatypes, so that we can use *any*
   file format for brushmaps.  This means when new formats come along,
   we can just install new datatypes and Imagine will magically begin to
   understand these new image formats.  This would be great for JPEG,
   GIF, etc, without having to code all those formats into Imagine.  (Of
   course, its another one of those things you can't make the same on
   the PC, but that's why I do this sort of work on my Amiga not my PC
   in the first place.  I don't see anything wrong with supporting
   features specific to certain platforms).

 * (This has been mentioned too: you should be able to render while
   you're modeling without starting two separate copies of Imagine).

 * Maybe iconfication of Imagine's custom screen?  Lots of apps now
   support this feature.  Its not hard to do, and its useful, especially
   if you can do it while Imagine is rendering to get it "out of the
   way" for a while.  Frees up graphics memory too.

Part of my long-standing frustration with Imagine is that I feel many of
these things are *long* overdue (especially the easy ones like ASL),
since most of my other productivity software and even PD software has
these sorts of things.  But if "Impulse listening to us users" is going
to be a trend now, perhaps things will get turned around...  I hope so.
I'd like to see an Imagine 3.1 which really supports the environment to
its fullest potential.  It goes a *long* ways towards making a more
usable system.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 160   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
    id AA16630; Wed, 12 Jan 94 16:19:37 GMT
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 16:19:37 GMT
Subject: CowMelt.lha


    I just uploaded to ftp.wustl.edu in the "/pub/aminet/new"
directory, the files "CowMelt.lha" and "CowMelt.readme".  When the
automated Aminet scripts kick in, they should be moved to
/pub/aminet/gfx/3dobj, and then mirrored on ftp.luth.se.  But in the
meantime, you should be able to grab these from the "new" directory,
even though you can't perform an "ls" there.

    This archive contains the "cow.new" object provided with
Imagine 2.0 that has been "melted" by my new C++ program I wrote to
perform object "melts" similar to the morphs in "T2: Judgment Day"
done on the T1000.  Please see "Melt.readme" in this archive for more
details.  The effect on the cow is rather bizarre.  :-)

    Enjoy!  Comments are welcome, of course.
                            -- Glenn Lewis


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 161   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 14:56:59 +0100
From: [e-mail] (Andreas Gutzwiller)
Subject: IML <> Newsgroup

There are always a lot of news in the IML. Is it not possible to make a own
newsgroup for imagine instead of the IML?
It's only a question because I don't know how complicatet it is to instal a
new group on the net.


              ^^
     xxxx     xxx
   xxxxxxxx xxxOxxx  _       Andreas Gutzwiller
  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 /xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx       FIDO:  2:301/707.7
/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx       AmigaNet: 39:110/101.7
  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/       AmiNet: 44:8010/101.7
   xxxxxxxxxxx    xx     InterNet: [e-mail]
    xxx   xxx
    xxx   xxx


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 162   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 14:03:30 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Paul Wehner)
Subject: attributes

Just ftp'd those 3 attribute archives (thanks!) and I'd like to make a
suggestion to anyone who shares theirs'. Some of the attributes were
pre-2.0,some seemed fit for 2.9, and some required essence. There is no way to
find this out until you load the att. I think it'd be helpful if text was
included describing what the attributes expect as far as assigns, essence,
etc. I follow Worley's example listed in Understanding Imagine and have
textures assigned w/ essence 1 subirs inside and have essence 2 installed the
to its default specs(Essence & EssAtts) This would simplify the sharing of
attributes among users.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 163   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Good question about fog...
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 10:25:00 PST


The global fog settings bottom, top, and length are defined in Imagine
units.  As far as I can tell, the bottom and top are absolute Imagine units
and the length is relative to the distance from the camera (hey, it works
for me!).

Side view:

   Buildings --------> I I I I I                                 -O
<-----Camera
                                               <------ 1000 ------->

In this example, the beginning of the buildings is 1000 Imagine units away
from the camera.  If you want your fog to start at the first building, you
enter 1000 into the length.  The fog will be very diffuse at this point,
though, so it might not be really noticeable until some distance beyond
this.  If you want more pronounced fog at the first building, you will have
to start the fog closer to the camera, say 500 units.  The top and bottom
are absolute Imagine units so if the top of the building is at +500 and you
want the fog to only go halfway up, then enter 500 into the top setting.  If
the bottom of the building is at -500 units, enter -500 into the bottom
setting.  I usually extend the bottom a little further below the bottom
plane so no gap shows up and the fog looks "thicker" at the bottom.  All of
these units can be found by switching the coordinates button on in the stage
editor.  As far as I can tell, the length setting in global fog determines
the point where the fog begins and the length setting of fog for objects
determines how deep the fog is only for the object.  Kind of confusing.
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
Subject: Good question about fog...
Date: Tuesday, January 11, 1994 2:29PM

>I'm
>having problems trying to pinpoint the right numbers to use for Imagine's
>three global fog settings ( top, bottom, length ).  Worley's book seems to
>imply that all is fine as long as length isn't 0.  I'm trying to create
>a simple city scene w/ skyscrapers, w/ a blue fog rising from the ground
>and reaching halfway up the buildings.  However, the fog settings don't
>seem to correlate w/ my Imagine units in Stage very well, and only after
>MUCH trial and error and test renders did I achieve something along the
line
>of what I was looking for.  What EXACTLY do the three settings mean?  Are
they
>defined by the camera view or something more bizarre?  What is the
relationship
>between top/bottom and length?
>
>Thanks to whomever kind soul answers this question,
>Tim

Anyone with an answer, reply to Tim as well as the IML.

Tims address is [e-mail] (That was on the post anyway...hope
its
right)


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 164   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 15:42:21 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> One suggestion though:  instead of covering up already-rendered background in
> postprocessing the lens flare, why not preprocess it, which would reduce the
> number of pixels left to be raytraced?

You can't pre-render the flare effects because they are translucent.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 165   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
Subject: Re: IML <> Newsgroup
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 13:07:30 CST

|There are always a lot of news in the IML. Is it not possible to make a own
|newsgroup for imagine instead of the IML?
|It's only a question because I don't know how complicatet it is to instal a
|new group on the net.

    For some reason I cannot post messages to usenet.  I can, and so
    can most other people on the net, receive email.  My usenet access
    is sporadic.  When changes are made to our server, sometimes they
    are good about getting us back on usenet, sometimes they are not.

    We have spoken about this before and I believe the concensus was
    that it should a newsgroup.

    Dale



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 166   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 15:47:29 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Re: Answers to (some) questions...


>
> Scott Kirvan writes:
>
> > This is very long, but I'll try to answer at least some of the questions
>
> First of all, I think its great for someone from Impulse to be active of
> the IML.  Thanks.  Here's hoping you are able to find time to keep doing
> it :-)
>

Not meant to be a flame on you Steve, but several people seem to have
forgotten that Mike has been on and off here for the last several
months.  Even if he gave answers we didn't want to hear, ....:)

[great suggestions deleted]
>
>  * Have default paths for the file requesters which are stored between
>    invocations of Imagine.  I always hate having to specify all my paths
>    from scratch every time I start up.  Granted, you can do something
>    such as assign "I:" to the location in question from a shell window
>    and then use that in the requester instead of typing the full path,
>    but that shouldn't be necessary anyway.

Even better, as I have said in the past, configurable default paths, so if
you move directories around just change the config. (which is essentially
the same thing with a different implementation.)


Scott Kirvan said:
>I just recently (within the last week) got this Internet account through a
>friend of mine, and have only been on the IML for the last few days.  This is
>NOT through Impulse - so if my mail begins to take up too much disk space, I
>may lose the account.   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Gee, we have been posting an awful lot lately, haven't we?

Scott Kirvan also said:
>>I find it hard to believe he [Mike] is a programmer. Is he?
>
>No.

Huh.  Who programmed the original Turbo Silver, or what ever it was called
in the very beginning?  How did he[Mike] come to own Impulse?  I thought
he started it with Turbo Silver.

Scott Kirvan said:
>After watching the posts for the last week, there seems to be a
>misunderstanding about this.  The texture interface format has never
>been published.

Well, actually, there was some code released in one of the versions of
Turbo Silver.  I would guess that is how Apex got the clues as to what you
are doing.  From what I've seen, there really hasn't been *THAT* big of
changes all the way through Imagine 2.0.  And what more could you add?
You already pass just about all the info a texture could want down to it
(in fact, all the info I can think of).  And how more dynamic?  You allow
textures to change normals, color, etc.  And textures are passed as pointers to
functions, pretty dynamic.  This is the best texture interface I've seen on
the Amiga.  I can't wait to see how you've improved it! (REALLY, I CAN'T
WAIT!  TELL ME, TELL ME, TELL ME!!!! sorry)

Well, enough rambling....


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 167   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
Subject: Re: Answers to (some) questions...
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 14:54:17 PST

Steve Koren writes about ARexx support in Imagine:
> (because it doesn't exist on MS-DOS or for whatever other reason).

Actually, ARexx is an Amiga port of "REXX", which I beleive started on
the PC platform.  FYI.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
& fact.junkie


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 168   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 01:53:00 BST
Subject: sound stuff

I think I've seen Anim Workshop Ver.2 in the mags, mail order, for $85 or
so. This is NOT the version that Axiom is doing the PixelPro promotion with.
I have a VLab, and by digitising the audio from some grabbed video, I was
able to perfectly sync the words with the lip movement. Using AmigaVision,
just put the included Show viewer in your C directory, and when AV calls
for an anim player, it'll play back the anim created with perfectly synched
sound. It also allows for the easy conversion and combing of all the various
popular anim formats. So that Imagine anims can be turned into animbrushes,
and animbrushes can be turned into a sequence of pix for use in Imagine.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 169   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 20:06:07 PST
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
Subject: Re: Lens Flare texture



>Just a reminder that 2.9's implementation of lens Flare is a texture, so....
>(1) more than one flare per object is possible (2) it can be tacked (3) it
>can be morphed by changing the parameters (4) it can be morphed by mutating
>the object (like Forms stuff). All of this means some interesting possibilities

     And they work too.... The only problem I'm having now is probably a
faq. Due to the setup of the lensflare object, the z axis is pointing out
of the flare. How do I get the flares to track to the camera (the action
editor wants to use the y axis as the base)?? I don't like
the solution of targeting them at another object as that could get sticky
with multiple flares, nor does the idea of tweening the alignment everytime
I move the camera appeal to me. Any other ideas?
     Just one more ;-). Does anyone have a workaround for the filter
map/transparency/fog quagmire? I'd like to use lensflares, global fog and fog
objects together.... or am I just dreaming?
     For the person that was wondering if Imagine can do re-entry flames.
Try the fireball texture, a teardrop and some fractel noise. Morphing the
object's shape and textures while entering an apmosphere (you'll run into
the fog/transparency bug here) looks pretty good at a distance.

                                         Christopher




--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).       Join the Animation Sig!


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 170   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Subject: REXX began life on IBM alright
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 00:00:43 PST

>Actually, ARexx is an Amiga port of "REXX", which I beleive started on
>the PC platform.  FYI.
>
>--
>Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
>& fact.junkie
>

Normally I wouldn't bother to post nit-picky stuff, but since you added
that "fact.junkie" line to your sig....

REXX began life on IBM alright.... IBM Mainframes, specifically IBM's
VM/CMS operating system.  Which many of you Amiga folks may want to
know that REXX is used to write actual applications in corporate
America and your AREXX skills could actually get you a job working on
REAL computers :-) at companies like Chevron, Bank Of America,
Levi-Strauss, Exxon. (It's not too often that Amiga skills can make you
money in the suit-and-tie world.)

REXX is available on PC's but about the only application that has an
"REXX PORT" is KEDIT an editor which is modeled after Xedit, the system
editor under VM/CMS, PC Rexx and KEDIT come from Mansfield Software.

Of course REXX is the official Batch language of OS/2, which of course
comes from IBM.

So, IF your are running OS/2 on your PC and you are able to run Imagine PC
in DOS emulation mode under OS/2 (anyone tried this?) THEN you could make
*some* use of an Imagine Rexx interface on the PC (and get real Multitasking
as a bonus, just like us Amiga folk!)

It's kinda fun to talk to an OS/2 fan, after about 5 minutes of them
bitching about how OS/2 is ignored while the inferior Windows 3.1 gets
all the attention they start to sound JUST LIKE AMIGA PEOPLE.

Don DeCosta           |The nice thing about sanity is|  VM/Nomad2
[e-mail]   |you can lose it more than once|  Amiga/Imagine


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 171   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 09:48:45 +0100
        "Re: Lens Flare texture" (Jan 12,  8:06pm)
Subject: Re: Lens Flare texture

On Jan 12,  8:06pm, Christopher Stewart wrote:
> Subject: Re: Lens Flare texture
>
>
> Due to the setup of the lensflare object, the z axis is pointing out
> of the flare. How do I get the flares to track to the camera (the action
> editor wants to use the y axis as the base)?? I don't like
> the solution of targeting them at another object as that could get sticky
> with multiple flares, nor does the idea of tweening the alignment everytime
> I move the camera appeal to me. Any other ideas?

Why don't you group the lensflare object with an axis located at the same place
but rotated from 90 degrees (so with the y axis at the exact same place as the
lens flare objects's z axis ?

Robin
>                                          Christopher
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from Christopher Stewart




--
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----------
Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer            Email: [e-mail]
Silicon Graphics Inc.                Vmail: 5-9389
Mediterranean Distribution Territory        Tel:   [phone]
Lausanne, Switzerland                Fax :  [phone]






+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 172   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 03:20:44 PST
From: 13-Jan-1994 0557 <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE answers, questions ect


>Actually, ARexx is an Amiga port of "REXX", which I beleive started on
>the PC platform.  FYI.

    Actually Arexx was used on the IBM mainframes for interprocess
 stuff. It was probably never moved to the PC's because it would serve
 no purpose. After all what good is a Rexx type application on a box
 that can't do more than one task at a time. I think MicroSoft has now come
 up with an interprocess type standard of their own. Rexx is supported on
 several platforms and has a yearly convention where a group of people
 meet to define new features ect. So it is actually very alive and well
 but we never see it except for the Amiga version. I don't have a lot of
 skill with Arexx but I feel it gives the Amiga abilities that reach far
 beyond most other boxs in that market. However I now consider the Amiga
 version of Imagine as pretty much dead. It is turning into a dos port
 for all intents and porposes an will suffer due to the severe limitations
 of that enviornment. It may still run and function but in heart it is not
 an Amiga product anymore. Vista Pro and others ported to the PC but have
 made some effort to keep the Amiga version a real Amiga product that
 supports all the great features available on the platform.
 BTW I've been an Impulse customer since early Silver days, so I will
 be updating to 3.0, just not with the spirit and pride I had in the
 past.

                    bill

// Disclaimer all these mumblings are my own an do not represent or reflect
   anybody else.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 173   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 13 Jan 94 12:16:12 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)
Subject: attributes


 [ 12 Jan 94 ] [ Paul Wehner -> me ]

 PW> Just ftp'd those 3 attribute archives (thanks!) and I'd like to make a
 PW> suggestion to anyone who shares theirs'. Some of the attributes were
 PW> pre-2.0,some seemed fit for 2.9, and some required essence. There is no
 PW> way to find this out until you load the att. I think it'd be helpful if
 PW> text was included describing what the attributes expect as far as
 PW> assigns, essence, etc. I follow Worley's example listed in Understanding
 PW> Imagine and have textures assigned w/ essence 1 subirs inside and have
 PW> essence 2 installed the to its default specs(Essence & EssAtts) This
 PW> would simplify the sharing of attributes among users.

I Know, but i wanted to share my attributes as fast as possible, and i was
to lazy, it would take me several weeks to fix my setup for that !...

Sorry to you all, but you got what you wanted......

   _:        Sren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
   |  A2000c/68030/68882/9/345/33Mhz   /_______\                    |
   .                                                                .
... WindowError:004 Erronious error.  Nothing wrong.
-Via DDDGate 1.45 @ 2:230/418.0, 13 Jan 94  13:06:28


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 174   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 06:32:32 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Answers to (some) questions...
    <[e-mail]>


> Actually, ARexx is an Amiga port of "REXX", which I beleive started on
> the PC platform.  FYI.

Well, actually it started in IBM but not on PCs.  It was invented for
mainframe use a long time ago.  The Amiga port is only interesting
because it lets tasks control internal operations of other tasks, and
lets you glue things together that way.  I think OS/2 has this ability
also.  Definitely not MS-DOS though - its not possible on a
single-tasking OS.

FYI :-)

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 175   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Stephen Pietrowicz)
Subject: Re: Answers to (some) questions...
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 8:48:10 EST

> Actually, ARexx is an Amiga port of "REXX", which I beleive started on
> the PC platform.  FYI.

I believe it started years ago on IBM mainframes, not the PC.

Steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 176   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 13 January 1994 10:43:02
From: Andrew DILLER <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Answers to (some) questions...
 Jan 94 14:54:17 PST

>   Steve Koren writes about ARexx support in Imagine:
>   > (because it doesn't exist on MS-DOS or for whatever
>   other reason).
>
>   Actually, ARexx is an Amiga port of "REXX", which I
>   beleive started on the PC platform.  FYI.
>
>   --
>   Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital
>   Animator / Videographer
>   & fact.junkie

I believe that it was not implemented on the PC but rather IBM mainframes. Some
system engineers wrote it to have a very easy to program language with some
serious power.

It has never been on an IBM PC (or clone) till OS/2 'reinvented' it.
Now it is becoming more popular on the PC.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 177   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 05:54:06 PST
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
Subject: Re: Lens Flare texture



>Why don't you group the lensflare object with an axis located at the same place
>but rotated from 90 degrees (so with the y axis at the exact same place as the
>lens flare objects's z axis ?

     I must have been tired..... thanks. Off to kick myself now.


                                                Christopher




--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).       Join the Animation Sig!


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 178   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Joe C Solinsky <[e-mail]>
    id AA00259; Thu, 13 Jan 94 08:04:55 -0800
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 08:04:55 -0800
Subject: Imagine 3.0 IS IT OUT?

Again,
    I have been away from my Amiga, AmigaWorld, the
net, and all my Amiga friends for far too long.  I WANT TO
KNOW IF Imagine 3.0 IS OUT YET.  If anyone has a FAQ on it,
I have the room on my quota for it...



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 179   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 10:11:53 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Re: CowMelt.lha


Is there a public domain flying bug somewhere?  Maybe like a dragonfly or
bee?  Glenns melt routine would be great for making a bug SPLAT against
a windshield.  Man, this stuff is fun.  If you havent checked out the
melts, you should.


Glenn, if you find or have a bug somewhere, could you melt it for me?
A head-on melt, if you please:)


Thanks


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 180   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 09:19:00 MST
From: [e-mail] (Brian Ridout)
Subject: Re: Answers to (some) questions...REXX
      dated: Wed, 12 Jan 94 14:54:17 PST



    Steve Koren writes about ARexx support in Imagine:
    > (because it doesn't exist on MS-DOS or for whatever other reason).

    Actually, ARexx is an Amiga port of "REXX", which I beleive started on
    the PC platform.  FYI.

    --
    Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
    & fact.junkie

Sorry,  it is my understanding it started as REXX on IBM mainframes.  Before
there ever was PCs.
********************************************************************
* Brian Ridout (Phillips Laboratory) (voice) 505-846-4349          *
* PL/WSAS                              (DSN) 246-4349              *
* 3550 Aberdeen Ave SE                 (FAX) 505-846-4374          *
* Kirtland AFB, NM 87117-5776       (E-mail) [e-mail]     *
********************************************************************


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 181   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fast 3D software
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 08:37:00 PST


>From Electronic Engineering Times Issue 779 January 10, 1994 -----

CANON TOUTS 3-D SANS ACCELERATOR
Interactive Graphics Algorithm Bypasses PC Hardware
______________________
 by Junko Yoshida

Guildford, England -- Canon Inc.'s British research arm, Conon Research
Center Europe, based here, has developed an algorithm that can render
interactive 3-D graphics on a standard 486-based personal
computer without using a hardware accelerator.  The new software allows
users to enter a 3-D
environment to grab, rotate and add texture  to 3-D objects.
     "It provides the navigation capability around 3-D objects in a very
easy and natural manner, " said
Mike King, executive vice president for marketing at Criterion Software
(Guildford, England). Criterion
is Canon's wholly owned subsidiary, newly established to develop, market and
support software products based on the company's interactive 3-D graphics
technology.

First product

    The Britsh company's first product, RenderWare, an interactive 3-D
graphics Application
Programming Interface for Windows, is being launched in the United States.
 The interactive 3-D
graphics software is usable and scalable across various platforms and is
already available in DOS, Mac OS and Sun Sparc.  Since it's written in C, it
can be ported to any other consumer platforms, ranging from interactive
cable set-tops to video-game systems, King said.
    The typical performance of the 3-D rendering software at the application
level is 40,000 triangles per
second on an i486 -based PC, which can be increased to 150,000 triangles per
second on a computer using Motorola's 80-MHz Power PC 601 processor.
    Criterion will initially focus on getting RenderWare to as many
application software developers as
possible through licensing.  Asymetrix Corp. will become the first U.S.
company to incorporate Criterion's
technology.  Criterion hopes to penetrate the end-user PC market as well as
set-top and home-
entertainment markets by bringing workstation-level 3-D graphics performance
to consumer platforms.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 182   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
    id AA19157; Thu, 13 Jan 94 18:59:06 GMT
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 18:59:06 GMT
Subject: Re: CowMelt.lha


Thomas> Is there a public domain flying bug somewhere?  Maybe like a
Thomas> dragonfly or bee?  Glenns melt routine would be great for
Thomas> making a bug SPLAT against a windshield.  Man, this stuff is
Thomas> fun.  If you havent checked out the melts, you should.

    Hey, that *would* be cool!  Anything where a gravity-like
force takes over is probably a good candidate for the melt.  Of course
the really nice thing about all of this is that it generates new
*objects* that can be further tweaked to satisfy your needs.  Need
something to melt in a bowl?  No problem... first melt, and then
conform the bottom of the objects to the bowl using your Imagine
modeling prowess.  :-)  If these were an "F/X", then it would be much
harder to customize them, in my opinion.  (Of course, this is all
rationalization anyway, as I've never tried to *write* an F/X.  :-)
    Of course, the down-side is that you have more objects to deal
with and more disk space.  I was about to say that it's similar to the
tradeoff between brushmaps and algorithmic textures, but I don't think
so because of the power we have witnessed when using textures.  I
guess if I could condense this program into an F/X, I would probably
prefer the F/X, and then I would just continue writing new ones to
suit the variations I wanted.  Enough rambling.

Thomas> Glenn, if you find or have a bug somewhere, could you melt it
Thomas> for me?  A head-on melt, if you please:)

    Well, the closest thing I've got is a VW Bug.  :-)  Sorry.
Hmmm... a VW bug smashing into a brick wall.  Eewe!  Yicky.  Too
gruesome.  We must concentrate on family oriented animations.  :-)
But seriously, a VW wouldn't "melt" into the brick wall... it would
accordion into it.  Hey... an idea for a different effect for the
base classes used to create "melt".  :-)
                        -- Glenn


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 183   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 14:41:46 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Paul Wehner)
Subject: Mail list contest?

Any plans for a new mailing list contest? maybe Impulse would kick in a free
3.0 or Apex something new and cool?



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 184   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 14:01:05 -0800 (PST)
From: ANIEMANN <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Answers to (some) questions...
Autoforwarded: false
Importance: normal
Priority: normal
Sensitivity: Company-Confidential
Ua-Content-Id: 11816B810200
Hop-Count: 1

With all this mention of wanting ASL requesters, datatypes etc. I thought I
would lend some support to what seems to be Impulse's stand. I would much
rather have energies put into the image end of the program. Requesters I can
learn to live with, but images need things like soft shadows (finally coming
I hear, but not here yet), soft edged lights and lighting effects (like
radiosity), gaseous effects (I'm hoping particle system will help here, again
it's not in the store yet), better control of animation parameters (such as
being able to change speed at any point along a path), instant visual
feedback of resulting image as paths and track paths are changed (without
having to constantly save and reload frame), depth of field, etc.etc.
andy






+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 185   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jan 1994   23:30:39 GMT
Subject: Uhh....fog and filter problems?!
     Thu, 13 Jan 1994 14:41:46 -0500 (EST)


Umm...maybe I just missed this since I never tried it...

But it seems imagine with Global FOG and filter-brushmap objects
don't work together.

Is this right?  On the PC version in crashes.  On the Amiga version
(including 2.9) I get black where the clear parts should be instead of the
fog color.

Damn.

Mike Comet
[e-mail]




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 186   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)
Subject: Re: Making Imagine Run Faster
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 22:29:45 EST

I just had to ask what was you rendering that took 4 days?

Tyrone Marshall



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 187   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)
Subject: Re: Making Imagine Run Faster
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 22:28:33 EST

>
> |    I really cannot see what the need for speed is about if you are
> |already using an Amiga 4000 or 2000 or 3000 or 500 or 1200 and you have a
> |040 or 030 or 020, sheesh??????
> |
> |    So you average rendering speed per frame is what, 6 minutes????
> |unless you are doing a 1 hour and 45 minute motion animation, I guess I
> |could understand the frustation, but if your frames are under the 100
> |mark, you really should thank Impulse that the darn things smokes in speed.
>
>     Whoa!!  Any trick that be used to speed up rendering is a benefit.
>     All these tricks accumulate to help quite a bit.  I did a 362
>     frame animation recently which gave me approx 12 seconds of
>     animation.  It took about 2 days to render (more like 36 hours).
>
>     Whether that's slow or fast depends on what your comparing it to.
>     Still 36 hours is 36 hours.  If I can shorten that to 24 hours, I
>     can use the other 12 hours for other things; like maybe post
>     production.
>
>     It's no flame to IMpulse, just a desire for more speed.  BTW, I
>     have a 2500/30.
>
>     Dale
>

    I understand your point, but the I'd rather leave the tweeking to
Impulse, I think they have the speed thing covered, I'd rather have more
features.




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 188   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 21:42:48 -0700
From: [e-mail] (les kraut)
Subject: RE: Answers to (some) questions...

>With all this mention of wanting ASL requesters, datatypes etc. I thought I
>would lend some support to what seems to be Impulse's stand. I would much
>rather have energies put into the image end of the program. Requesters I can
>learn to live with, but images need things like soft shadows (finally coming
>I hear, but not here yet), soft edged lights and lighting effects (like
>radiosity), gaseous effects (I'm hoping particle system will help here, again
>it's not in the store yet), better control of animation parameters (such as
>being able to change speed at any point along a path), instant visual
>feedback of resulting image as paths and track paths are changed (without
>having to constantly save and reload frame), depth of field, etc.etc.
>andy
>
Andy;
        An excellent response I had hoped mentioning the newsletter would
help as well! after all we DO want everything in the last newsletter....

        I think a good solid response that impulse will definatly implement
a more useable amiga interface as soon as it can would end most of the
discussion on this topic. Especially if they gave a list of features.
I hope they do as I really like the idea of squashing bugs.... just think of
using a gaseous effect for a fire fly at night on the windshield with the
gaseous particle effect for its gizzard bouncing off the hood of that great
57 chev in boing.

        Well enough of the gooee stuff
                Lesk







+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 189   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)
Subject: Re: Making Imagine Run Faster
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 22:25:30 EST

>
>
> <chuckle> I might be puttin my foot in my mouth for saying this, but
> judging from your post, you haven't made any large or intricate anims
> using Imagine yet. Why? Well, on a 2000 030 runnin at 40MHz (before the
> bottleneck), my average rendering time is around the 5-6 minute mark only if
> I'm doing the little lores quarterscan 'thumbnail' test pics, or an extremely
> basic pic (if it's to the scale I generally work in, between 704x240 and
> 736x480). My average rendering time hovers around 10 minutes per frame, my
> average anim length roughly 90 frames... 900 mins = 15 hours, which if you're
> working against a deadline, doesn't give
> alot of room for error.
>
> If time ISN'T of the essence with you while rendering, I guess it means one of
> a couple of things:
>
> 1) You've got one seriously DIESEL system, like an Indy or other high(er) end
> platform.
>
> 2) You're a hobbyist and animation isn't a professional interest.
>
> or
>
> 3) You might want to try creating more complex scenes. ;-)
>
>
>                             I\/Iax I\Iomad
>
>
>

    Trust me I enter Architectural Competitions using Imagine to model
my buildings and render them, 15 hours is great if I were rendering 10
frames, I render usually 15, and 15 hours is once again *WONDERFUL*.

    These competitions I enter are professional and for money.
    I say you might need to pace yourself in the design phase and put
rendering time in your planning schedule.
    Even 10 minutes a frame is wonderful, hey, start rendering at 9pm,
go to bed and get up at 7 or 8am, you should have something. THen go to
work, and render some more, come home, and wala, you should be well
covered for your 15 hours, actually you would have more than 15 hours.

    Tyrone Marshall
    I just do not understand these quotes at the bottom of people's messages???



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 190   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)
Subject: Re: RE^2:Making Imagine Run Faster
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 22:39:59 EST

>
>
> >|  The best way to squeeze a little extra performance out of Imagine
> >|(on an Amiga) is to display a 320x200x1 IFF pic (all black to prevent
> >|burn-in of your monitor) and bring that screen to the front while
> >|Imagine is rendering.  The Imagine Screen is 640x400x4 and will
> >|steal about 5%-10% of your CPU cycles because of DMA contention.
>
> >    Jeff,
> >
> >    I'm not sure that I understand this.  I usually generate my frames
> >    in the Project editor.  I turn my monitor off and do something
> >    else around the house while rendering.  Is Imagine still using cpu
> >    time for display even though the monitor is off?
> >
>   Yes, if the Imagine screen is "in front" then your rendering will slow
> down slightly.  I never did understand why they use a 16 color screen
> for the project Screen.  Using a 4 color (2 bitplane) Project screen would
> not slow down rendering in a measurable way.  Not only that but the
> current 16 color screen in use only uses 4 of the 16 colors anyway.
>
>   Turning off your monitor will prevent burn-in but will not effect
> performance at all.  The display signals are still being sent out the
> port.
>
> >    Also  what if I just pull the workbench screen forward, would that
> >    do the same thing, or am I missing the point?
> >
> >       Dale
>
>   Yes, bringing the Workbench Screen to the front will have the same
> speed up effect as long as your Workbench is 4 colors or less and is not
> using Overscan.  Oh yea, I should mention that Overscan makes the
> DMA contention worse.  So if you really want to slow down Imagine's
> rendering then patch Imagine to use an overscan 736x482 screen and keep
> the project screen in front while rendering ;-)
>
> -Jeff Wahaus-
> [e-mail]
>
>

    Even a hires 2 color project editor screen would be more
appropiate, why do I need 16 if all I am doing is watching the thing render?

    Tyrone Marshall



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 191   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)
Subject: Re: Making Imagine Run Faster
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 22:35:46 EST

>
> >     So you average rendering speed per frame is what, 6 minutes????
>
> No, more like 25, 45 or 90 mins per frame on my A3000 - about half
> that on the 4000.
>
>
> > unless you are doing a 1 hour and 45 minute motion animation, I guess I
> > could understand the frustation, but if your frames are under the 100
> > mark, you really should thank Impulse that the darn things smokes in speed.
>
> Well, 1h45m at 6m per frame = 18,900 hours or 2+ YEARS of rendering.
>
> For the more realistic (if not conservative) 22 mins/frame:  100 frames
> (which is barely over 3 seconds of animation) would take 37 hours.  A
> day and-a-half for 3 measly secs!
>
> Most of my animations are around 20 seconds, take 25 mins/frame so
> that's 250 hours or over 10 days.  Ten days for twenty seconds...
>
> If I wanted to go crazy (eEeheheh) and do a full blown 5 minute short
> film; something worthy of a Siggraph tape quality-wise, we're talking
> 9000 frames at maybe 1.5 hours each = 13,500 hours or a YEAR AND A HALF
> of rendering time alone...
>
> Yes, I think we could all use a little more speed!!
>
> I mean hey, I started doing this with Sculpt on an A500 where one Lo-res
> frame would take 18 hours or more - so I'm pleased when I can render on
> 2 or 3 A4000's overnight and have a few seconds of animation done in the
> morning, but it's still not FAST ENOUGH.  I want it now, NOW, N O W !!!! ;^)
>
> --
> Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
>

    Well the 1hour45min is the equivalent of 2 years in the making
which is still short even for things such as the minds eye and minds eyeII
...I still think even 2 years for 1hour45 minutes is not bad.

    You need more speed, get a faster accelerator board, or sell your
3000 and get a 4000 with 040.

    I do not mean to sound insensitive, but really, this is what the
pros face, compare the price of the amiga and imagine to the price of the
system and software it takes to do star trek, seaquest, or viper, or
TekWars and I guess you see my point. Get yourself multiple amigas

    The pros have 4, 5, and more Amigas rendering, so you get your
1hour and 45 minute motion animation in less than 2 years, 4 to 5 times
quicker, if you are using more than one amiga to render...



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 192   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 10:26:26 +0100
Subject: IML guide

As many people wanted to have that, and as I keep a copy of it, here it is !
I know I use a lot of bandwidth, but as somebody suggested it, this should be a
periodically posting.
BTW, this is quite an old (~ 6 months) version

Robin


The Imagine Mailing List Guide  -
-------------------------------------------------------------------
version 2.2      last updated 07/01/93



Welcome to the Imagine Mailing List.

This Mailing List is a followup to Steve Worley's original
Imagine Mailing List that he created at while at MIT.
It is endorsed, supported and read by Steve and his
company Apex Software Publishing, as well as Impulse Inc.,
and a host of other Imagine/image-processing related
vendors and luminaries as well as experts and users of many
of the popular rendering software packages on many platforms.
This is a classy place.  ;-)



About Imagine
--------------------
Imagine is a 3D modeling and rendering program with built-in
animation capabilities that was initially released on the Amiga
computer. It offers rendering and modeling capabilities that
existed previously only on high-end machines at a cost far beyond
what was reasonable for normal mortals. It is a product of Impulse
Inc. which is located in Minnesota. Imagine was the natural evolution of
an earlier Amiga product from Impulse called Turbo Silver.
Both products have become standards in the creation of the impressive
demos and animations that Amiga owners collect and use to
demonstrate their computer. Now, with the release of Imagine-PC,
Imagine users on the Amiga will have a new way to make use of their
clones and take some of the renderload off of their Amiga.
Imagine-PC should also bring many MSDossers into the fold of
the Imagine Mailing List. It offers a way for the average
MS-DOS user to get his/her hands on a reasonably priced, high-power
entry into the world of 3D rendering. Being a new product though,
Imagine-PC naturally will inherently contain bugs and an
occassional programming booger. The IML is the perfect place to
watch for discussions about these. Or share the ones YOU'VE found!
Impulse has announced it will be also porting Imagine to the
Silicon Graphic platform. This will give us additional graphics users
of a professional caliber to share hints, tips and information with.


Imagine is a tool used by many video and computer professionals
to enhance productions and give them a sheen unattainable only a
few years ago. Your handling of 3D software can polish virtually
any project from "adequate" to "awesome" regardless of what hardware
platform that you are launching Imagine from.




Subscribing,Unsubscribing And Address Change Procedures
----------------------------------------------------------
To receive the Imagine Mailing List...steaming hot and fresh in your
Mailbox....
simply send your request to me at:

[e-mail]

In your subject line...please have the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe"

It only takes one business day at the most for your request to
   be implemented, and it is done in bulk... so go ahead...use it!
   Use this same address should you change addresses, machines,
   account numbers...or anything that might impede your
   receipt of the IML. Everyone thanks you for your prompt
   notification on any account changes.  :-)


*-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:*
* REMEMBER THIS BOX!                                                   *
*                                                                      *
* DO NOT POST "SUBSCRIBE" or "UNSUBSCRIBE" posts to the IML!           *
*                                                                      *
* NEVER, EVER.... NEVER.                                               *
*                                                                      *
* USE THE FOLLOWING ADDRESS:                                           *
*                                                                      *
*  [e-mail]                                *
*                                                                      *
* IN YOUR SUBJECT LINE HAVE THE WORD "SUBSCRIBE" OR "UNSUBSCRIBE"      *
*                                                                      *
* It's done every business day automatically, so it's fast and easy!   *
*                                                                      *
*-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:**-:*



About This List
----------------------
The Imagine Mailing List was created in January 1991 by Steve Worley
on a computer at MIT.

It was moved to a machine here at Paramax under my administration in
May 1992.

For those of you not familiar with a Mailing List,
it works like this:

The Mailing List site contains a file of all the people who "subscribe" to
the List. When you mail a post to this account at the Site, the Site
computer merely echoes your post to everyone on that list. At this time,
the IML consists of over 400 subscribers! Some of
these "subscribers" are actually networks or BBS's. They will then
further distribute the information they get from the IML. That means that
your post is echoed and then viewed by thousands of people at computer
sites around the world!

The purpose of the Imagine Mailing List is for the discussion of Imagine
and related products.
Since there are professionals from many fields reading the List, as well as
first time users, not to mention those middle of the road semi-experienced
types there is always someone at YOUR level of learning. You can either
read along, or feel free to ask anything about your rendering
experiences that are giving you trouble. There is NO bad question.
There is NOTHING that is too elementary. Share your questions. We all will
learn from it!

Naturally, while Imagine is the main thrust of the List, topics can vary
quite widely. 3D rendering in general- including how to achieve a
desired effect, algorithm variations, Imagine in comparison to other products,
video applications, what video hardware to buy, and Imagine interfacing
to other products are just a few of the subjects that have rumbled
through here!  :-) DCTV/Toaster/OpalVision/Real3D/Retina questions, Lightwave
comparisons ("Ask Mark Thompson") removeable media drives (for large
animations)
reviews of Vista Pro and Scenery Animator (virtual landscapes generators),
new product rumors, are a few more of the offshoot discussions.


***********************************************************************
The single and cardinal rule of the IML is to treat your fellow
readers and posters with the same respect you would appreciate
accorded yourself. In other words, it's OK to reasonably
and intelligently describe why one package or hardware platform is
preferable for your use in a specific instance. It is NOT OK to blast
or flame the large time and financial investments made by others in
competing hardware and software products. It is also NOT OK to run off
a 25Kbyte tirade on why Imagine will never be able to compete
with <insert your favorite hardware/software>. Be brief, to the point,
say your piece respectfully, and hand the soapbox to the next person.
************************************************************************


There is a complete archive of the IML (well maintained
by our friend David Ingebretsen- [e-mail]). Currently, our
Official IML archival site (The IML Landfill) is at
wuarchive.wustl.edu (128.252.135.4) in the path:

/pub/amiga/video/imagine/archive
/pub/amiga/video/imagine/art
/pub/amiga/video/imagine/anims
/pub/amiga/video/imagine/objects

To UPLOAD to the IML Landfill, use the path:
/pub/amiga/incoming/imagine


The complete archives of the IML discussions are available
for anonymous FTP in the archive directory as is the
IML-FAQ (frequently asked questions). The FAQ is maintained by
a small group of Imagineers led by Michael Comet- [e-mail].
Should you be interested in a current copy of the FAQ, please
check our IML Landfill site first. If you are unable to get a copy
from there...feel free to write to either myself or Michael Comet
for a current copy.

In addition, there are always new Imagine-related objects, scenes,
animations and projects popping up. If you have a source for
Imagine objects, renderings, gifs, etc. the IML is a perfect place to
share this kind of information and the IML Landfill site is a swell
place to put 'em where we can all check them out!

Is the IML active? You bet. There are usually 5-10 posts per day, so be certain
to
check your mail...or the List where you read it. If you don't, this
thing can really get away from you. Compuserve users in particular
should keep up to date. CIS only allows a user a very limited
mailbox size. This mailbox will flow over quite quickly and
begin generating errors on the List that are both unnecessary
mail traffic...and an annoyance to those who post.
This is a good thing for all List members to watch though, be certain
that if you have any limitations on mail reception, that you
keep your mailbox emptied out so that you don't accidentally
get removed from the List for error generation OR anger your local
System Administrator with your snivelling about your lost mail
because of a full mailbox. ;-)

Keep an eye out for subject matter that maybe of specific interest
to you since your question may already have been answered.

According to Steve Worley, the highest volume traffic is the question,
 "When I try to view things in scanline, everything looks great...but
  when I try to render it in raytrace, some things simply don't show.
  Why is this happening?"
Answer: READ THE FAQ.  :-)

Also posted periodically, is the complete IML membership list.
This gives people a chance to see who's who... or be able to
easily refer to someone privately if they care to discuss something
in depth at a later date. Users will find it handy to occassionally
check this "IML Directory" and verify that their own name/account
information is correct. If you would prefer not to be listed in
this posting, please notify me, but I would prefer that everyone
on the List be included.

Also, suggestions about enhancing Imagine and bug reports are welcome.
This List is posted at Portal and is read by at least two employees of
Impulse .Your comments are seen by them. While I can't say you will get
a personal response to a post, you ARE being read! And read by the
people who matter, at that.

All posts contained on the Imagine Mailing List are public domain and
can be reposted on BBS's on networks or where ever you see fit. If you
should want to post them somewhere...be sure to:
1. Include the original posters name and address.
2. Mention where the post is from and our address
   (i.e. The Imagine Mailing List
         [e-mail])

Feel free to let everyone know about the Imagine Mailing List and urge them
to get involved, but please, please, please...  ONLY publicize the
address              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

   [e-mail]


There are several reasons for this. It keeps the "subscribe"
and "unsubscribe" messages out of public view. SOME PEOPLE PAY
FOR ACCESS (BY VOLUME) and are not interested in seeing the behind the scenes
business going on at their expense. Also,I send out a test message to
all sites before adding them to the List. This eliminates some of the
clutter of bad addresses and hard to reach sites from being sent.
Once they have responded to the test message, I immediately add them to the
List.

By the same token, please attempt to let me know of any changes in your
account status. It slows delivery of everyone's mail down if the system
spends several days attempting to deliver mail to an account that
no longer exists.

It's general courtesy to the rest of the readers to be *certain* to
notify me of a change in your account status.



Posting to the List
-----------------------------------
This is the really easy part. To have your question, comment or whatever,
posted to the Imagine Mailing List...send it to

[e-mail]




|NOTE COMPUSERVE USERS.....                 |
| the correct address for you to use is     |
| in THIS format:                           |
|    >INTERNET:[e-mail] |


Your post may take up to two days to appear on the List. Don't panic.
If it does NOT appear, please resubmit it after a couple days wait.
Naturally you should keep a copy of your post as a backup
in case you need to repost it.  If you make several attempts and
you cannot get your posting thru to the list, try using our
emergency alternate address:   [e-mail]



IMPORTANT: If you do *not* want to see error messages-
           in the header of your post, include the line
           errors-to: [e-mail]
           or errors-to: /dev/null
           Naturally, this assumes you have header editing
           capabilities. To find out if you can edit
           headers in your mailing system...see your local
           system administrator.


(also read Troubleshooting below)




Troubleshooting your Subscription to the List
----------------------------------------------------------------
(This section may bore you into a fitful sleep. I recommend not
 reading it unless you have some trouble. Skip it but don't
 forget to save the file on a disk somewhere.)

1."Hey Dave! I posted to the IML, and nothing happened!"
2."Hey Dave! I sent my mail to the IML, and it bounced!"
3."Hey Dave! All of a sudden, I'm not getting IML mail anymore!"

If I had one dollar for every time I heard these lines, I would
now have Bill Gates washing my car every Tuesday.  :-)





1."Hey Dave! I posted to the IML, and nothing happened!"
Here's the deal; most mailing lists have a problem.
The problem is that after you post, the mailing list goes down
the list of subscribers delivering merrily along. Then, when it hits a
site/account/subscriber that is unavailable... it delivers a
bounce note back to the poster. This might not seem like a big deal,
but when a list gets large (we are at over 400!) you have a good
chance of seeing MANY bounces come back to you. Nobody likes this.
Nobody wants this. So we fixed it. The fix however, may cause
a small percentage of readers some trouble... and even then... only
when they are REPLYING to someone's post. Never during an original post.
Be certain your REPLYING post is directed to the account:

[e-mail]


NOT TO:

[e-mail]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This address will NOT go to the IML. It is forwarded to
              me. If I see it, I may forward your message to the
              full list, but I can't gaurentee it. Safest bet is to
              simply make SURE of your addressing before you post.


2. "Hey Dave! I sent my mail to the IML, and it bounced!"

Hmmmm, well what can I say? This could be anything from your
computer having a Bad Hair Day, you mistyping the address,
any computer in the path between you and us, our computer being
on the fritz, me mistyping something...heck...it could be anything!
Save your bounce message. It will help us find out what's wrong
and where it's wrong. Eventually, we have gotten 100 percent
success with everyone who wants to read or post to the IML.
Help me find the problem by saving your bounce message and I
can assure you, we'll get ya going. EVERYONE sees an occassional
bounce using electronic mail... but if you have consistent,
repeatable errors... let me know.

3. "Hey Dave! All of a sudden, I'm not getting IML mail anymore!"

I keep tabs on accounts that bounce mail for a period of time.
If you have system / software / communications trouble that could
lead to your site bouncing IML mail for several days straight...
you may well have been removed from the list for the convenience of
your co-readers. The easiest way to find out is to drop a line
to:

[e-mail]

and ask about your account status.

If you see a problem that you think I should be made aware of...
or if my description leaves you feeling muddleheaded, confused, and
slightly nauseous and you'd like further clarification, feel free to
email me about it.



About the Creator of the List-  Steve Worley
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Worley is a 3D kinda guy who is as familiar with the Imagine
package from Impulse as virtually anyone you will find roaming
free and allowed to drive. :-)
An MIT graduate with a never-ending quest for that  "perfect render",
he is a contest-winning computer artist who has interest in 3D
computer art crossing several product lines.
He is responsible for the wildly successful and helpful book
"Understanding Imagine 2.0 - A Complete Imagine Reference"
and has co-authored with Glenn Lewis (another Imagine
Mailing List member),the "Essence" textures product for
Imagine from Apex Publishing. For information on these products,
you can write to Apex at:

         APEX Software Publishing
         405 El Camino Real
         Suite 121
         Menlo Park, California   94025
         USA


Steve may be reached for personal mail at the following:

[e-mail]

If you'd like to hear more about APEX's products, use the
following address:

[e-mail]

Steve is fairly prompt in his responses, so you shouldn't have
to wait too long if he's available.




About the List administrator
-------------------------------------------
My name is Dave Wickard. I am a technician at Unisys Corporation
working in the Defense Division called Paramax in Eagan Minnesota.
I work as an Engineering Specialist in the maintenance organization that
handles the hardware on CAD/CAM workstations. Mostly our systems consist of
Apollos,
HPs, Suns, Silicon Graphics,and Vax-based Applicons. This job has pretty much
been my meal ticket for the last 12 years.
I have been interested in Imagine ever since I started seeing the amazing ray
traces
generated by a friend with it's predecessor Turbo Silver. I have been an Amiga
enthusiast since 1988 or so.
I own an Amiga 2000 with about a gig of hard drive, a tape backup system,
the PPS 040 (28Mhz) accelerator and 37 Meg of RAM and a Video Toaster.
My tastes run in the line of Ren and Stimpy, Mystery Science Theater 3000,
The Simpsons, the NFL ,CHEERS and alt.tasteless. Varied but stable subjects.
At 36, I can clearly see where I have been and am remotely interested in
where I am going. My hobbies include spending hundreds of hours
shoveling my Minnesota driveway during our winter (Oct-April),
reading (science fiction and horror mostly- King, Barker, Niven, Koontz,
Chalker),
telecomm (I have been/am an active member on many different networks),
fishing (most any species, fly-in spring trip to Canada), photography,
music (I have a large album and CD collection) and MIDI related topics.
Any other questions may be addressed to me personally, to be
perfectly frank, I'm happy to write...and talk. Feel free to drop me
a line anytime.



In closing
---------------------
Thank you for reading the Imagine Mailing List. If you have any questions
regarding
it...I am but a few keystrokes away.  Feel free to contact me with
any Imagine Mailing List questions at any or all of the
addresses below and I will respond as quickly as possible,
usually the same day as I receive it. If you can... I would appreciate it
it you'd refer to the FAQ first, since that is it's purpose.


If you have any Imagine questions...fire away! There are helpful and
knowledgeable people here who can help.


Dave Wickard [phone]   "'And on your deathbed, you will receive
[e-mail]        total consciousness'... so I got that
[e-mail]       going for me...which is nice."  -Bill Murray
[e-mail]
[e-mail]  (for subscribes, unsubscribes, and
questions)
[e-mail]   (alternate site subscribes, unsubscribes,
and questions)
[e-mail]       (for List access)
[e-mail]           (alternate site List access)



--
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----------
Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer            Email: [e-mail]
Silicon Graphics Inc.                Vmail: 5-9389
Mediterranean Distribution Territory        Tel:   [phone]
Lausanne, Switzerland                Fax :  [phone]






+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 193   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 07:03:54 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Uhh....fog and filter problems?!


> (including 2.9) I get black where the clear parts should be instead of the
> fog color.

Something which sounds identical to this happens to me with filter
objects (although I've never tried it with filter brushmaps - but it
might be the same problem).  I've been able to work around it by taking
the object and extruding it a very small distance.  This seems to make
transparency "work" with global fog.  It seems as though you need an
even number of face crossings for the global fog to show through a
transparent object.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 194   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Greg Pringle)
        (4.1//ident-1.0) id AA19300; Fri, 14 Jan 94 08:16:42 MST
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 08:16:42 MST
Subject: Re: Uhh....fog and filter problems?!


>   But it seems imagine with Global FOG and filter-brushmap objects
>   don't work together.
>
>   Is this right?  On the PC version in crashes.  On the Amiga version
>   (including 2.9) I get black where the clear parts should be instead of the
>   fog color.

   Yeah, this is right.. this even seems to happen when you have overlapping
fog objects and filter mapped objects (then the fog disappears where the
filter map is).

   Also, is there a bug in Imagine PC so that when you name subgroups,
every other character is left out of the subgroup name? Is this fixed
in 2.9?

>   Damn.

  Damn Damn.

>   Mike Comet
>   [e-mail]

  Greg




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 195   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 10:08:54 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe


>> Well, since no one seems to want to volunteer the address of where to send
> list-maintenence requests I am going to have to go and do a bad thing.
> Namely, post my UNSUBSCRIBE message here.
>
> If you have the address for Imagine list maintenence, PLEASE send it to me!
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE UNSUBSCRIBE UNSUBSCRIBE UNSUBSCRIBE UNSUBSCRIBE UNSUBSCRIBE
>

sheesh, I thought someone would have sent it...

its

[e-mail]


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 196   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)
Subject: Re: Making Imagine Run Faster
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 10:04:56 EST

>
> |
> |    Trust me I enter Architectural Competitions using Imagine to model
> |my buildings and render them, 15 hours is great if I were rendering 10
> |frames, I render usually 15, and 15 hours is once again *WONDERFUL*.
> |
> |    These competitions I enter are professional and for money.
> |    I say you might need to pace yourself in the design phase and put
> |rendering time in your planning schedule.
> |    Even 10 minutes a frame is wonderful, hey, start rendering at 9pm,
> |go to bed and get up at 7 or 8am, you should have something. THen go to
> |work, and render some more, come home, and wala, you should be well
> |covered for your 15 hours, actually you would have more than 15 hours.
>
>     It goes without saying, isn't this what everybody does?  And the 6
>     minute render times are on very simple flying logo stuff.  Thus
>     far my animations have not been extremely complexed.
>
>     I understand the comment about getting a faster processor and more
>     machines.  I accept that.  It there is still room to make Imagine
>     faster, that would be nice too.  You seem to be opposed to Impulse
>     trying to speed Imagine up, am I correct?  Why?
>
>     Dale
>
>

    NO one is opposed to not speeding it up, there were just
complaints about the speed a lot of talk about how upset people were
because they had to wait 6 to 10 minutes for a render.
    Sometimes you should be thankful for what you have.

    Tyrone Marshall



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 197   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 11:08:41 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Merge bug


I was working on my bug to smash into a windshield last night when I came
across another bug:)

After slicing an object(slice is great, ain't it!?!), I was merging part back
in so my object would be closed.  Usually this works great, and I had already
done this several times this session.  But this one time I merged and BLAM!
Lines shooting out in every direction!  Imagine was merging my object with
the Universe!!!!!  Or so it seemed.  Then BLAM, flashing power light and
a yellow guru came up.  I recovered, but it appeared Imagine had already
trashed memory.  Everything was REAL slow and a few mouse clicks later
a full unrecoverable crash!

That merge bug ate my bug:(

Anyone else see this one?


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 198   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 11:02:10 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Re: Making Imagine Run Faster

> >
> > > unless you are doing a 1 hour and 45 minute motion animation, I guess I
> > > could understand the frustation, but if your frames are under the 100
> > > mark, you really should thank Impulse that the darn things smokes in speed.
> >
> > Well, 1h45m at 6m per frame = 18,900 hours or 2+ YEARS of rendering.
> >
> >
> > Yes, I think we could all use a little more speed!!
> >
>
>     Well the 1hour45min is the equivalent of 2 years in the making
> which is still short even for things such as the minds eye and minds eyeII
> ...I still think even 2 years for 1hour45 minutes is not bad.
>
>     You need more speed, get a faster accelerator board, or sell your
> 3000 and get a 4000 with 040.

You originally
asked why people were concerned with speed, why do these things to save
little bits of time.  Little bits of time add up.  Take the 1h45m example
above.  Say you save 1 sec off each frame...thats 52h30min!  Just for one
second saved per frame.  Now if objects are loaded once and only once, as
was asked of Impulse, I'm sure you could save around 2-5 seconds per frame
(given a fairly large number of objects).  Thats 105hours - 262 hours!!!!!
Save a half second using a low res screen(I think thats generous), save
more time.  Given that you have the fastest machine, why not do these extra
things to speed the process?  The quicker you get done rendering, the more
time you'll have to work on your next anim!

>     I do not mean to sound insensitive, but really, this is what the
> pros face, compare the price of the amiga and imagine to the price of the
> system and software it takes to do star trek, seaquest, or viper, or
> TekWars and I guess you see my point. Get yourself multiple amigas

The pros do whatever it takes to get more speed.  Especially with
a production schedule.  That is why the pros use scanline or something
other than raytracing.  That is why the pros use Screamers and Reality
Engines, and optimized code and little tricks like objects missing their
backsides(polygon reduction), and whatever else they can come up with.
Time is money.  If you can't afford multiple amigas, you do whatever
you can.  Thats the point!!  We don't want to HAVE to spend $$$ on multiple
amigas, but we want to get our animations out asap.  I mean sure, you
can get multiple Amigas, but I for one am still gonna question the
way Imagine does things if it causes my rendering times to be longer.
Just because you can improve your hardware doesn't mean you shouldn't
improve your software.

I'm not sure I understand where you are coming from.  Do you like the
anticipation of waiting for your frames to come out?  Why not get an
Amiga 500 and run the int version, put your recursion depth to as
high as it will go, put in as many glass and mirror objects as memory
will allow, make your world huge and your objects small, cover everything
with textures, use gigamem, throw up a highres overscan 64 color screen, and
run vistapro in the forground and have a ball waiting your butt off:)
Just kidding.


Well, enough rambling.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 199   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
Subject: Re: CowMelt.lha
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 13:07:41 CST

|    Well, the closest thing I've got is a VW Bug.  :-)  Sorry.
|Hmmm... a VW bug smashing into a brick wall.  Eewe!  Yicky.  Too
|gruesome.  We must concentrate on family oriented animations.  :-)
|But seriously, a VW wouldn't "melt" into the brick wall... it would
|accordion into it.  Hey... an idea for a different effect for the
|base classes used to create "melt".  :-)

    I don't know.  A VW bug with wings and big eyes splatting into a
    wall would be interesting.  Or maybe the grill on a Mack truck.
    Sorry for the gruesome image folks.  then cut to a scene of an
    animated truck driver in the cab saying, "Whoa!! That was a big
    one."  Hey... but you'd be the first animator on the block to do
    that one.  :)

    Dale


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 200   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 14:16:33 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
Subject: Re: Merge bug


>
>That merge bug ate my bug:(
>
>Anyone else see this one?
>


    Yes...i have had problems with merge.

    I find sometimes it adds or removes teh proper number of faces and
also put edges and stuff where there were none.

    I have found that hitting Amiga-F  to see how many faces there are
might help.  If it is wrong, do a merge command again.

    It seems sometimes doing the merge command a second time or so
unfixes the problem.

    Very strange.

    This was in 2.0 as well i think.


--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail] - CWRU, Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
| Computer Graphics/Animation! - Liquid Vision SIG (go liquid),  Freenet   |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 201   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:32:48 -0600 (CST)
From: Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Merge bug

On Fri, 14 Jan 1994, Thomas Setzer wrote:
>
> I was working on my bug to smash into a windshield last night when I came
> across another bug:)
>
> That merge bug ate my bug:(
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^----Not that uncommon in the animal world.

                Art imitates life!




                        obnoxious irony off






+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 202   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 19:21:22 GMT
From: Jason Jack <[e-mail]>
Subject: Comments on States and Cycle objects

Greetings to all.  Good to see Impulse tentatively online :)

Wishes for 3.0.  Comments welcome...

 - Convert cycle object to a states object.
   I have many cycle objects I'd like to have take advantage of brush
   and texture tacking.

 - Ability to load an object as a state for an existing state object.
   Example: Glenn's melting chesspieces - I'd like to load in (say) the flat
   object, make it state '1', load in the next one, make it state '2', etc,
   all the way upto '10'
   I'm suprised this isn't possible now (is it?)...

 - Obvious extension to above: automatically build up a state object from
   an indexed list of objects, eg Knight.0001, Knight.0002, ...
   THIS WOULD MAKE STATE OBJECTS FROM MORPHUS OBJECTS! (real important :) )

   (while I'm on the subject of Morphus..
    - The StageGen program seems to work just fine on 2.9 staging files :)
    - I managed a melt effect very similar to Glenn's quite easily :))
    - IMPULSE: Any updates to this fine program?
   end digression)

 - Easy way to cycle a state object in the stage or action editors.
   Example : I have a running man, a full cycle is made from 12 keys.  As a
   state object it is not at all easy to have him run a few steps or even
   just one...
   I do hope this is in 3.0

Are any of these a big deal for others?


          Jay
  [e-mail]
(Flames gratefully rendered)



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 203   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jan 1994   22:28:31 GMT
Subject: DPS Par number - new version!


Yes!  I donwloaded the new version of the par version.  A lot of
changes from 1.16 to 1.61.  I won't bother to list them. Except
to say it seems the PAR now loads IFF24, TGA and SGI format.

The BBS number is 1-416-754-8368

It seems they support at least 14400 baud.

Mike C.
[e-mail]

PS:  A message there said the PAR for the PC should be out this month!




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 204   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 14:45:06 PST
From: [e-mail] (David Monachello)
Subject: Re: Comments on States and Cycle objects

hi,

Very well stated. I also have a large investment in cycle objects. I believe if the
"Ability to load an object as a state for an existing state object" was added then at
least the cycle object could be converted to a state object by hand using snapshots of
the cycle object.

I have not tried to "cycle a state object" yet. Is there a (difficult) way to do this?

thanks,
dave monachello



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 205   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Greg Pringle)
        (4.1//ident-1.0) id AA23695; Fri, 14 Jan 94 16:10:48 MST
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 16:10:48 MST
Subject: Re: Merge bug


>After slicing an object(slice is great, ain't it!?!), I was merging part back
>in so my object would be closed.  Usually this works great, and I had already
>done this several times this session.  But this one time I merged and BLAM!
>Lines shooting out in every direction!  Imagine was merging my object with
>the Universe!!!!!  Or so it seemed.  Then BLAM, flashing power light and
>
>   Anyone else see this one?

  Been there, done that B^). This happens to me so often that I just
always use join, then use pick points and merge the appropriate points.
This seems to get around it. Otherwise, your object might even look fine
after a merge, but then crash when rendering.

>   Tom Setzer
>   [e-mail]

 Greg Pringle





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 206   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Tony Jones <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: REVIEW: Piccolo Graphics Board
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 94 00:01:38 GMT

Posted for Anders Lattermann:

In a message of 08 Jan 94 Joachim Worringen wrote to :

 JW> PRODUCT NAME
 JW>  Piccolo Graphics Board 2MB

Anyone know how well this card runs with Imagine?

/Anders Lattermann

FidoNet:  2:201/411.24              !    PointBreak - Stockholm - Sweden
AmigaNet: 39:164/100.24             !    A3000/10/105 + SQ88C & 17xSQ800
InterNet: [e-mail] ! I feel the need, the need 4 speed!




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 207   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 23:54:01 GMT
             (from David Monachello <[e-mail]>)
             (at Fri, 14 Jan 94 14:45:06 PST)
From: Jason Jack <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Comments on States and Cycle objects

Hi David,

(this may not appear on the IML - I don't know if Cc: works in my mailer
yet...)

> hi,
>
> Very well stated. I also have a large investment in cycle objects. I believe if the
> "Ability to load an object as a state for an existing state object" was added then at
> least the cycle object could be converted to a state object by hand using snapshots of
> the cycle object.

Very true.  And good enough for me...

> I have not tried to "cycle a state object" yet. Is there a (difficult) way to do this?

It is simply the repetetive loading of a state object within the action
editor, typing (yik!) in the (next) state name and the transition frame
count, clicking OK, and repeating this for every state (and repeating all
that for every 'cycle' of all the states).

Horrible.

Looking for a bright side? Well, at least Imagine 2.9 doesn't re-load the
state object in everytime you add to the time-line :)

> thanks,
> dave monachello

Jay




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 208   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Tony Jones <[e-mail]>
Subject: Compiled List as requested
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 23:58:41 GMT

Posted for Johan Van Houtven:

 >  9. When will the display data base be implemented?

There must be some reason why the programmers at Impulse haven't implemented this. Is it only because you do not have enough time? Because it is not your priority?

May I add that Commodore has stressed the importance of the Display Database since WB 2.x? DPaint 4.5, Brilliance, Final Writer, Real3D V2, etc all use the Display Database.

 >  11. When will standard file requesters be used?
 >   --
 >   --| I have to note here oddly that it goes the furthest back
 >   --| and has been commented on about the most


 >  14. Request for using standard system fonts.

Please?

 > Of all the things I read and all the information I have gone through it
 > looks like when people got 2.9 and did not see proper implementation of
 > the amiga dos features shaboom! things around here went down fast.

Correct.

The question is: How can we help Impulse to make Imagine Amiga User Interface Style Guide compliant as fast as possible?

I am not a programmer, so I do not know what is involved to implement the above.  But I do know that it can not be too difficult for Impulse to use the standard file requester and to stop using shadowed fonts in the menus etc.

Are there any programmers here who would be willing to help Impulse (assuming the want this help) with e.g. implementing the Display Database?

 >  Personally it scares me when mike says he is using a two year old
 > compiler that had to be patched.

To Mike Halverson: Which compiler a are you using at Impulse?

 > It troubles me that he would have to ask
 > about graphics data base since he is the developer and has updated
 > manuals?

I have been connected to this area since 1 day, so I not practically noting about Mr. Halverson. But could it be that Mike is not a programmer himself? This would explain why he does not know about the Display Database. BTW, doesn't Visionaire, a morphing program published by Impulse, use the Display Database?

 >         Lesk


 -- Johan.





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 209   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 17:09:39 PST
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
Subject: Re: Merge bug



>That merge bug ate my bug:(
>Anyone else see this one?

     Yep. Try setting a particle emission to 200% ;-), KABOOM!!!!!
Sometimes objects disappear in the stage editor, especially when they're
loaded with quickdraw. Switching to newmode cleans it up, but......

     Hey, has anyone out there figured out the particle requestor? I can
do a few tricks now but the "bouncing" seems to elude me. I tend to "drop
and dribble" ;-). Any clues?

                                        Christopher



--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).       Join the Animation Sig!


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 210   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 1994 12:53:33 +1100 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Uhh....fog and filter problems?!


On Fri, 14 Jan 1994, Steve Koren wrote:

>
> > (including 2.9) I get black where the clear parts should be instead of the
> > fog color.
>
> Something which sounds identical to this happens to me with filter
> objects (although I've never tried it with filter brushmaps - but it
> might be the same problem).  I've been able to work around it by taking
> the object and extruding it a very small distance.  This seems to make
> transparency "work" with global fog.  It seems as though you need an
> even number of face crossings for the global fog to show through a
> transparent object.
>
>   - steve
>
This is a good tip. Thanks Steve. It may be just the way Imagine works
out transparency. e.g. Index of refraction doesn't work properly with
objects with thickness of one polygon. e.g. making a bottle or a glass
with only single-polygon thickness and applying the index of refraction
of glass doesn't give quite the right results. If however, the walls of
these are made up of 2 layers, the results become realistic.

This should still be fixed though.

Nik.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 211   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 21:31:05 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: REXX

    Well actually REXX wasn't PC, although it was IBM. Everyone
assumes IBM means DOS/PC... It was a language for there mainframes and
workstations tho. I mean really- who here expects that they would bother
to develop an inter-process control language for a non-muti-tasking
machine?!?!?! get a grip. AREXX is nice, although it needs some more
working in so to speak- not all programs I use necsisarily have AREXX
ports. Oh well, just throwing my 2 cents your way.

MCA 94 Bob O'Connell


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 212   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 94 03:09:00 BST
Subject: Fog and Filter

I do not use global fog because it's so unpredictable. It looks different in
Scanline vs. Trace mode. And trying to figure out what the measurements are
based on. For instance Fog Top/Bottom. O.k., 500 units. 500 units from what?
The camera? The 0,0,0 point? Rather than deal with that, I just use Fog
objects. If you want a foggy scene, make a big box, be sure the camera is
outside of the box, and have the box enclose the foggy part of your scene. As
far as filter mapping is concerned, it works fine as long as your object has
some thickness. So a primitive disk or a plane will not work. You must extrude
the primitive to give it some thickness for the Filter mapping to work
correctly when the object is in front of a Fog object. You can scale the
extruded disk or plane back down, like about .0001 in y. It will then be
very thin, and the Filter map will work fine. Try it, you'll see!


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 213   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)
Subject: Re: Making Imagine Run Faster
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 94 0:18:20 EST

>
> > >
> > > > unless you are doing a 1 hour and 45 minute motion animation, I guess I
> > > > could understand the frustation, but if your frames are under the 100
> > > > mark, you really should thank Impulse that the darn things smokes in speed.
> > >
> > > Well, 1h45m at 6m per frame = 18,900 hours or 2+ YEARS of rendering.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, I think we could all use a little more speed!!
> > >
> >
> >     Well the 1hour45min is the equivalent of 2 years in the making
> > which is still short even for things such as the minds eye and minds eyeII
> > ...I still think even 2 years for 1hour45 minutes is not bad.
> >
> >     You need more speed, get a faster accelerator board, or sell your
> > 3000 and get a 4000 with 040.
>
> You originally
> asked why people were concerned with speed, why do these things to save
> little bits of time.  Little bits of time add up.  Take the 1h45m example
> above.  Say you save 1 sec off each frame...thats 52h30min!  Just for one
> second saved per frame.  Now if objects are loaded once and only once, as
> was asked of Impulse, I'm sure you could save around 2-5 seconds per frame
> (given a fairly large number of objects).  Thats 105hours - 262 hours!!!!!
> Save a half second using a low res screen(I think thats generous), save
> more time.  Given that you have the fastest machine, why not do these extra
> things to speed the process?  The quicker you get done rendering, the more
> time you'll have to work on your next anim!
>
> >     I do not mean to sound insensitive, but really, this is what the
> > pros face, compare the price of the amiga and imagine to the price of the
> > system and software it takes to do star trek, seaquest, or viper, or
> > TekWars and I guess you see my point. Get yourself multiple amigas
>
> The pros do whatever it takes to get more speed.  Especially with
> a production schedule.  That is why the pros use scanline or something
> other than raytracing.  That is why the pros use Screamers and Reality
> Engines, and optimized code and little tricks like objects missing their
> backsides(polygon reduction), and whatever else they can come up with.
> Time is money.  If you can't afford multiple amigas, you do whatever
> you can.  Thats the point!!  We don't want to HAVE to spend $$$ on multiple
> amigas, but we want to get our animations out asap.  I mean sure, you
> can get multiple Amigas, but I for one am still gonna question the
> way Imagine does things if it causes my rendering times to be longer.
> Just because you can improve your hardware doesn't mean you shouldn't
> improve your software.
>
> I'm not sure I understand where you are coming from.  Do you like the
> anticipation of waiting for your frames to come out?  Why not get an
> Amiga 500 and run the int version, put your recursion depth to as
> high as it will go, put in as many glass and mirror objects as memory
> will allow, make your world huge and your objects small, cover everything
> with textures, use gigamem, throw up a highres overscan 64 color screen, and
> run vistapro in the forground and have a ball waiting your butt off:)
> Just kidding.
>
>
> Well, enough rambling.
>
>
> Tom Setzer
> [e-mail]
>
> "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
> intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
>
    The pros still use more than one computer to render their
animations, most have work stations linked like a net rendering to huge pool.

    I still say if you do not like it, get yourself an additional amiga.




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 214   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 16:50:00 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Saffold)
Subject: Re: CowMelt.lha



Uucp>         Of course, the down-side is that you have more objects to deal
Uucp> with and more disk space.  I was about to say that it's similar to the
Uucp> tradeoff between brushmaps and algorithmic textures, but I don't think
Uucp> so because of the power we have witnessed when using textures.  I

Well, the good thing about objects/brushmaps, is that if one gets
really desperate (Like I did) for space, they can use the XPK
software, and compress all of their objects.  Then using XData, you
can set it to where Imagine will automatically decompress the
objects..  Using this, I went from about 4 megs free, to 19 megs
free..:)  This also works on brushmaps, so if pegger isn't affordable
at the moment, this might be a cheaper alternative.

 * Q-Blue 1.0 [NR] *--
*******************************************************************
*  Cuerna Verde BBS FidoNet Gateway  *  Data/Fax: [phone]  *
*  Pueblo, Colorado USA              *  FidoNet:  1:307/18        *
*******************************************************************


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 215   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 1994 05:29:34 -0700
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Impulse, use the ASL File Requester Now!
X-Organization: VeriFone
X-Ps-Qualifiers:
 /FONT=Courier-Bold/LINES=66/LEFT_MARGIN=36/CALCULATE/TOP_MARGIN=36/BOTTOM_MARGIN=36
X-Envelope-To: email.sp.paramax.com!imagine
X-Vms-Cc: JEFF_W1

Impulse,

  Here is the source code for *FREE* which will allow you to easily
(in under 10 minutes?) add support for the system file requester to
Imagine.

  You no longer have any excuse!  Use it.  Your users want it!

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]

----------------------- cut here ------------------------

/* FileRequester() - This function will call the system file requester and
   -------------     return a char pointer to the path+file name.
                     This code also saves the current position and size of
                     the requester in case the user adjusted it.

                     Written by: Jeff Wahaus      This is Public Domain

             EXAMPLE:  filename = FileRequester(Wnd, LOAD_FR);   */


WORD fr_top = 7, fr_left = 38, fr_width = 440, fr_height = 385;
const char *def_patt = "~(#?.info)";

#define    LOAD_FR    1
#define SAVE_FR 2



char *FileRequester(Wnd, type)
Window *Wnd;
int type;
{
char *ret;
static char tmp_filename[128];
struct FileRequester *FileReq;

switch (type)
    {
    case LOAD_FR:
      FileReq = (struct FileRequester *) AllocAslRequestTags(ASL_FileRequest,
       ASL_TopEdge, fr_top, ASL_LeftEdge, fr_left, ASL_Width, fr_width,
       ASL_Height, fr_height, ASL_Hail, (ULONG) "File to Load", ASL_FuncFlags,
       FILF_PATGAD, ASL_Window, Wnd, ASL_Pattern, (ULONG) def_patt,
       TAG_DONE);
      break;
    case SAVE_FR:
      FileReq = (struct FileRequester *) AllocAslRequestTags(ASL_FileRequest,
       ASL_TopEdge, fr_top, ASL_LeftEdge, fr_left, ASL_Width, fr_width,
       ASL_Height, fr_height, ASL_Hail,(ULONG) "Save File", ASL_FuncFlags,
       FILF_SAVE, ASL_Window, Wnd, ASL_Pattern, (ULONG) def_patt,
       TAG_DONE);
      break;
    }
if (AslRequest(FileReq, NULL))
    {
    strcpy(tmp_filename, FileReq->rf_Dir);
    if (tmp_filename[0] != '\0')
        if ( (tmp_filename[strlen(tmp_filename)-1] != ':') &&
             (tmp_filename[strlen(tmp_filename)-1] != '/')    )
            strcat(tmp_filename, "/");
    strcat(tmp_filename, FileReq->rf_File);
    }
else
    tmp_filename[0] = '\0';
ret = tmp_filename;
fr_top = FileReq->rf_TopEdge;
fr_left = FileReq->rf_LeftEdge;
fr_width = FileReq->rf_Width;
fr_height = FileReq->rf_Height;
FreeAslRequest(FileReq);
return(ret);
}

{ ** That's All there is to it ** }




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 216   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 15 Jan 94 09:56:00 EST
From: "Andrew Church" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Making Imagine Run Faster

[lots of quotes deleted]

  Please, people, don't quote an entire 75-100 line message just to make a
four line reply!

>    The pros still use more than one computer to render their
>animations, most have work stations linked like a net rendering to huge pool.
>
>    I still say if you do not like it, get yourself an additional amiga.

  Why are you against speeding up Imagine?  If you want to buy another Amiga
to speed up your rendering, fine.  But Imagine could certainly be optimised -
and there's no reason why it shouldn't be.  Things like keeping objects in
memory between frames rather than loading them for each frame do not take
(or, rather, should not take, assuming that Impulse's programmers are at
least semi-competent) a lot of time to implement.  If I was in charge of
writing a program like this, I would certainly see to it that it was as fast
as possible.

  Just my $.02.  (Whoever's collecting these must be getting pretty rich by
now... :-) )

  --Andy Church



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 217   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Manjit Bedi)
Subject: PEGGER
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 1994 11:33:39 -0800 (PST)

For a good review of the "PEGGER" program check out the lastest
issue of Video Toaster User.  The wonderful thing about this program
is it will work in 2M of memory; it processes images conversion
in sections at a time.  So you don't run into that familiar
message you will often see with AD Pro.  So if you have
mega huge bitmaps to convert; it should not be a problem
because PEGGER will do it piece by piece. I plan to buy
PEGGER next week when the local Amiga dealer gets it in.

I am very impressed with the calibre of the articles in
VTU.  The magazine is for more than just Toaster types.

Also, there is something about PEGGER in the latest issue
of Amiga World.

And for the novice users out there; Amiga Format has been
running Imagine tutorials for a few issues now.  Lots
of photos in color showing you how to do what they
are talking about.  In the January issue, the
article is on how to use the preferences editor and
forms editor.  The article is two pages with small
type and many screen shots.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 218   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 94 22:32:07 GMT
From: Jason Jack <[e-mail]>
Subject: (correction) Re: Comments on States and Cycle objects

I wrote:

> Another poster to the IML advises in a phone call to yourself that loading
> an object into a state object -will- be supported in 3.0.  Wonderful!  This
> is good enough for me :)

Actually this was a private email.  Can you confirm please Mike?

Thanks in advance,

Jay





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 219   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 94 22:24:13 GMT
             (from Mike Halvorson <[e-mail]>)
             (at 15 Jan 94 11:20:55 EST)
From: Jason Jack <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Comments on States and Cycle objects

Hi Mike! Great to see you here :)

> To Jason and all,
>
>     As we learn more how people use Imagine we continue to make using
> it easier.  In no attempt to flame your comments I must say that States is
> very easy to use, consider this, try doing what you are doing with Imagine
> by hand with paper and a pencil.  Disney still does this and it takes much
> more time than it would seem it takes you to do a few tweens.

Human nature - I only see the time traps not the time saved :) - the
inability to load a tweened shape into a state object as a state was a dead
end for me with this current project.  It was not possible for me to 'do a
few tweens' as my tweens had been generated by MORPHUS using a complex
series of deformations - which cannot take advantage of the excellent
TACKING feature because they cannot (currently) be loaded into one states
object.

Another poster to the IML advises in a phone call to yourself that loading
an object into a state object -will- be supported in 3.0.  Wonderful!  This
is good enough for me :)

>     The one fear we have of making things eaiser to use is this, we
> dont and wont take away any power from the software just so it is "eaiser"
> to use.  Until we can figure out how to make it eaiser and maintain power
> we just wont change something for the sake of change.
>
>     As always if you can suggest a better way that does not take power
> away, I for one would love to hear it.

I -do- have a suggestion to improve 'ease of use' without loosing any
power :-

In the Action editor, in the Object File Info requestor, where one enters
the State Name, would it be possible to have a button next to it which would
popup a list of all the states that are available for that object?
Selecting one from the list would enter it as the selected State Name.  Of
course you could still type anything you wanted instead.

Right now I have to write down a list of all my state names on a sheet of
paper!

This 'ease of use' idea takes priority over all others (like sliders for
light source colors) - because it is the one I run into the most.

This idea could be extended to other text input fields - most important ones
are the ones where there are a lot of choices - eg. Lockstate and Subgroup
fields in the texture and brush attribute requestors, and to a lesser extent
the Object Name fields of Track To Object and Associate, and the Path Name
of Follow Path.

I'm not going to push my luck and suggest a similar button for the
Transition Frame Count - ho no! - that would make entering a complex series
of states __completely mouse driven__  ;-)

>     Remember also you are using 2.9, there are a few surprises in store
> for 3.0 users.
>
>     Mike

I love suprises!  Take your time and get it right.  Make a great product
even greater!

Thank you for taking the time to respond,

Jay



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 220   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 1994 15:42:35 -0700
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Impulse, use the ASL File Requester Now!
X-Organization: VeriFone
X-Ps-Qualifiers:
 /FONT=Courier-Bold/LINES=66/LEFT_MARGIN=36/CALCULATE/TOP_MARGIN=36/BOTTOM_MARGIN=36
X-Envelope-To: email.sp.paramax.com!imagine
X-Vms-Cc: JEFF_W1


Mike Halvorson writes:
>    Thanks for the code, we will look at it.  No promises however, I
> think that the users want more than a new requester type, things like bones
>and kinematics and constraints and the list goes on and on.  NOTHING takes

  Why has Impules always suggested that supporting the operating system
features will limit the new features added?  I know that users want other
things as well, I don't see this as an excuse for not supporting the
operating system though.

> 10 minutes or we would have been done about 3 years ago. 8 ).

  Yea, I know.  I was being a little facetious ;->

>    I will pass your code on to the programming staff.
>    mike

  Thats good to hear!  Of course, unless they actually use it I will
have waisted a bit of my time.

  I posted the source code to the mailing list to add a little extra
pressure :-)

Later,

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 221   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)
Subject: Camera sizes
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 94 19:59:12 EST


    Can someone tell me what would be a decent camera size (x,y,z) if
you scale your objects and world in imagine units, one unit is equal to
one foot, and convert inches to decimals, stuff like that.

    I know the y value for camera size is equivalent to zooming in and
out from your relative view, but lets say I want the camera view to be
proportional to a scaling of one foot equals one imagine unit.


            Tyrone Marshall




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 222   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)
Subject: Re: Fog and Filter
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 94 20:16:01 EST

>
> I do not use global fog because it's so unpredictable. It looks different in
> Scanline vs. Trace mode. And trying to figure out what the measurements are
> based on. For instance Fog Top/Bottom. O.k., 500 units. 500 units from what?
> The camera? The 0,0,0 point? Rather than deal with that, I just use Fog
> objects. If you want a foggy scene, make a big box, be sure the camera is
> outside of the box, and have the box enclose the foggy part of your scene. As
> far as filter mapping is concerned, it works fine as long as your object has
> some thickness. So a primitive disk or a plane will not work. You must extrude
> the primitive to give it some thickness for the Filter mapping to work
> correctly when the object is in front of a Fog object. You can scale the
> extruded disk or plane back down, like about .0001 in y. It will then be
> very thin, and the Filter map will work fine. Try it, you'll see!
>

    It would seem to me that point the global fog starts from is 0,0,0

    your x value would indicate horizontal how far extending (think of
a x-y graph coordinate system) negative and positive if you value is 0,
however depending on the x value you input, the fog will move to that x
location(horizontal), next your y value, would indicate a direction
perpendicular to the x(look at the coordinate icon in your editor
windows), this would give you a length, your x value would give a width,
anyways the y value you input would now set a 2dimensional location of
your fog, no height yet, the z value gives height, I know that there is a
start 0,0,0 input requestor and a end fog 0,0,0 requestor, well this is
setting up your fog from two dimensional rectangular location with a
height of z, with a end location, does this make sense?

    hope it helps!

            Tyrone Marshall



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 223   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 16 Jan 94 09:19:21 GMT
From: Andrew Nunn <[e-mail]>
Subject: MOVIE commands

Does anyone have a list of all the commands that can be used in a MOVIE
script file ?

Andrew


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 224   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 16 Jan 1994 10:25:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Camera sizes

The default values for the camera axes work pretty well for me, at a scale
of 1 centimeter=1 Imagine unit.  It really depends on what kind of lens
effect you want, wide-angle, telephoto, or 'normal.' What I've done in the
past is to set up a short animation with a lot of familiar objects (human,
table, etc.) for scale reference, then make the only variable the camera
axes.  This gives a zoom-in anim, from which you can pick the frame with
the proportions you're looking for.  Make a note of the camera's axes at
that frame, and use those values in setting up your project.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 225   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)
Subject: Re: Camera sizes
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 94 15:38:42 EST

>
> The default values for the camera axes work pretty well for me, at a scale
> of 1 centimeter=1 Imagine unit.  It really depends on what kind of lens
> effect you want, wide-angle, telephoto, or 'normal.' What I've done in the
> past is to set up a short animation with a lot of familiar objects (human,
> table, etc.) for scale reference, then make the only variable the camera
> axes.  This gives a zoom-in anim, from which you can pick the frame with
> the proportions you're looking for.  Make a note of the camera's axes at
> that frame, and use those values in setting up your project.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
> [e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161
>
>    "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

    Thanks Dave, I figured out by accident how to get wide-angle,
could you tell me about the telephoto setting?




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 226   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 01:01:00 BST
Subject: Morphus and States

Morphus will load 2.9 objects, deform them, and save them with prior States
intact. You then reload the object into Detail, and define a new State for
the Morphus deformation. Using the Metamorph Event in Morphus, this technique
can be used to take a 2.9 object into 2.0, for using Confrom to Path, for
instance, and then saving it out to create a new State in 2.9's Detail.
Given the fact that the file size increases significantly, I doubt the
feasability of defining a new State for every frame of an animation. Morphus
will write a different object for each frame, tho, and if a way could be
found to "batch convert" a series of Morphus generated objects with just one
new State automatically defined for each new object, that seems a lot more
doable. This would enable some very cool "tacked" morphs.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 227   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 16 Jan 1994 23:08:35 -0600 (CST)
From: Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Impulse, use the ASL File Requester Now!


On Sat, 15 Jan 1994, Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529 wrote:

>   Here is the source code for *FREE* which will allow you to easily
> (in under 10 minutes?) add support for the system file requester to
> Imagine.
>   You no longer have any excuse!  Use it.  Your users want it!

Amiga code that is.  As mentioned in ealier posts, they develop for two
platforms.  So if your in that much of a hurry, post the equivalent DOS
code.  I'd bet you'd have a better chance of getting it in the program if
you covered both bases now that Impulse is a multi-platform company.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 228   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)
Subject: Re: Camera sizes
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 0:43:15 EST

>
>
> Tyrone,
>
>   If you are using Imadine 2.9 all you have to do is set the Camera's
> POV (Point Of View) to the desired focal length.  Imagine 2.9's is 90 for
> default.  But 45 equates to a 35mm camera, and 65 is a zoom lense. Human
> vision is around 55.  Of course if you are using Imagine 2.0 you can't use
> this.
>
> GreG
>
>

    Thanks Greg, thats a big difference! 2.0 does not have that neat
little feature.  I'm waiting to vote with my wallet when 3.0 is released,
I like the sound of the POV feature.

            Tyrone Marshall



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 229   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Sebastien PERKINS)
Subject: TEXTURATOR
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 08:54:49 +0100 (MET)

i'VE JUST RECEIVed a bulletin board message saying that Impulse is developing a
module for 3.0 called 'Texturator' apparently for textures (!)

I would like to know,

a) is this true ?

b) if true, what the devil is it ??

Thanks,

  Seb




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 230   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Sebastien PERKINS)
Subject: GASES
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 08:56:06 +0100 (MET)

Hi,


I'm wondering if anybody out there has a good tip about simulating gaseous effec
ts im Imagine 2.0, with or without Essence I & II ? (I have both, with great tha
nks to Steve Worley, these are GREAT !)

The sort of gaseous effects i'm looking for would be any really, but especially
ones used in space scenes.


Thanks,

 Seb




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 231   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Stephen Pietrowicz)
Subject: Re: Merge bug
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 8:09:11 EST

> I was working on my bug to smash into a windshield last night when I came
> across another bug:)
>
> After slicing an object(slice is great, ain't it!?!), I was merging part back
> in so my object would be closed.  Usually this works great, and I had already
> done this several times this session.  But this one time I merged and BLAM!
> Lines shooting out in every direction!  Imagine was merging my object with
> the Universe!!!!!  Or so it seemed.  Then BLAM, flashing power light and
> a yellow guru came up.  I recovered, but it appeared Imagine had already
> trashed memory.  Everything was REAL slow and a few mouse clicks later
> a full unrecoverable crash!
>
> That merge bug ate my bug:(
>
> Anyone else see this one?

Bug merge bug?  :-\

Yes, I've seen this too.  I've seen variations of this merge bug as well,
particularly when loading in IFF pictures and doing a number of merges.  This
problem still exists in 2.9.

Steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 232   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 10:29:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Freundlich <[e-mail]>
Subject: ChessMelt

Well, I finally got the ChessMelt objects loaded.  Did a quick 60-frame b/w
wire render of the bishop unmelting. WOW!

Now I'm working on a full HAM/Lace Scanline of the bishop on a chess-board
ground, unmelting, with the camera going around just for fun, then rotating the
camera while the bishop melts back down.  Wow'd the socks off my roommates.

This is great, when can we expect to have access to the program?!?!

+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
|Rob Freundlich                         |#define SYSOP GOD                    |
|IDX Systems Corporation                |#define REALITY NULL                 |
|[e-mail]     <- You Are Here |                                     |
|[e-mail]                 |Diseased Programmers do it in MUMPS! |
+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
|     Amiga 4000/040/25MHz/10M/120M - No IBM clone even comes close!          |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  "Some folks you don't have to satirize, ya just quote 'em" - Tom Paxton    |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|#include <stdio.h> int main() {printf("My opinions not my IDX's");return(0);}|
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 233   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 08:03:06 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Impulse, use the ASL File Requester Now!


> On Sat, 15 Jan 1994, Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529 wrote:

> Amiga code that is.  As mentioned in ealier posts, they develop for two
> platforms.  So if your in that much of a hurry, post the equivalent DOS
> code.  I'd bet you'd have a better chance of getting it in the program if

There is no ASL requester on DOS, but Impulse already has a custom
requester written there.  Thus:

   impulses_very_own_fancy_multi_platform_file_requester(mumble)
   {
   #  ifdef MSDOS
         UseCurrentCustomDosRequester(mumble);
   #  endif
   #  ifdef AMIGA
         UseASLRequester(mumble);
   #  endif
   }

Really, using a new file requester is *not* a big deal.  Impulse has
said that "they'd rather do soft shadows", or whatever, but this
argument makes little sense to me.  Soft shadows is a big deal.  Adding
the ASL requester is trivial.  IMHO, their argument would be like the
writer of a word processor saying, "no, we're not going to have a
backspace function in this release, because we want to add support for
multiple columns". :-)

Anyway, Impulse, if you're listening: in the spirit of helping out, I
have example code for all of the following.  If you ask, I'll give it to
you, completely free, no strings attached.  It shows you exactly how to
do the following:

  o Iconification of your custom screen
  o Display database support
  o Finding and using the user's selected font
  o Icon drag-and-drop (how about adding textures that way?  Or
    brushmaps?  Or loading new objects?  Or...)

Ask and thou shalt receive...  I'm sure someone else can probably donate
example code for using datatypes, too.  We, your lowly users, are
willing to help :-)

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 234   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 08:13:59 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: GASES



> I'm wondering if anybody out there has a good tip about simulating
> gaseous effec ts im Imagine 2.0, with or without Essence I & II ? (I
> have both, with great tha nks to Steve Worley, these are GREAT !)

I've found that you can get decent gas effects by using fog objects
combined with a "turbscolor" texture on the object's surface.  But you
have to be careful: since these objects are not true volumetric gasses,
it helps to make sure there are no fast changes in the cross section of
the fog object.  For example, if you make a cubic fog object, you'll see
"lines" where the edges of the cube are if you look at from certain
angles.  A sphere won't show that.  Or, a cube where the edges are
outside your image will work too.  You can do it, it just takes a little
messing around.  It won't be as good as Aladdin gas objects, but might
be passable anyway.

The biggest problem I've had trying to simulate a decent gas effect is
when I want to have a gas in the form of a cone.  Either the gas is way
too thick on the "fat" part of the cone, or too thin to be visible on
the thin part.  I wish you could vary the "fog length" along the
object's Y axis, that would solve the problem I think.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 235   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 10:32:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Freundlich <[e-mail]>
Subject: 1-plane black screen

After all the discussions on speeding up Imagine, I noticed that several people
have mentioned putting a 1-plane black screen up during the render to speed
things up.  Although I didn't quite understand the explanation of why this
works (trusting, aren't I?), I decided to give it a try.

Fired up the editor, wrote a quickie to open a 1-plane, all black screen.  Now
I've got it sitting in my ToolManager dock so I can call it up whenever I need
it.

I haven't noticed a marked speedup, but then I haven't tried anything complex
either.

Anyone interested in a copy of this program?  I'll gladly post it here or mail
it to individuals.  The lha file is ~6K.

+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
|Rob Freundlich                         |#define SYSOP GOD                    |
|IDX Systems Corporation                |#define REALITY NULL                 |
|[e-mail]     <- You Are Here |                                     |
|[e-mail]                 |Diseased Programmers do it in MUMPS! |
+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
|     Amiga 4000/040/25MHz/10M/120M - No IBM clone even comes close!          |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  "Some folks you don't have to satirize, ya just quote 'em" - Tom Paxton    |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|#include <stdio.h> int main() {printf("My opinions not my IDX's");return(0);}|
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 236   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 08:26:39 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)
Subject: Lights... an easy one

        What with all the heavy duty questions I've seen asked this
morning, I have what is probably a slam dunk to answer for all you long
time users.
        When I am in the staging editor I can't get the light lines to show
up!! The camera lines show, the camera view is exactly what I'm getting
when I render but, when I highlight "Camera Lines" I might as well be
pressing the knot in the paneling on the wall next to my desk!!! What am I
missing?!!!!
                                Novicely yours,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Toasters don't burn toast. People burn toast."
                        Curator Seattle Toaster Museum

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 237   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
    id AA01613; Mon, 17 Jan 94 17:42:03 GMT
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 17:42:03 GMT
Subject: Re: ChessMelt


Rob> Well, I finally got the ChessMelt objects loaded.  Did a quick
Rob> 60-frame b/w wire render of the bishop unmelting. WOW!

    Hey, fantastic!  I'm glad you got it working!  Sounds like you
liked the effect.

Rob> Now I'm working on a full HAM/Lace Scanline of the bishop on a
Rob> chess-board ground, unmelting, with the camera going around just
Rob> for fun, then rotating the camera while the bishop melts back
Rob> down.  Wow'd the socks off my roommates.

    Great!  I was hoping to decrease the world's sock population!
:-)

Rob> This is great, when can we expect to have access to the
Rob> program?!?!

    Well, I just sent the article (this last Saturday) to
Dr. Dobbs Journal, and am waiting to hear if it will be accepted.
They said that their July issue is devoted to graphics, so that it
should be an excellent fit.  This means that I would not be able to
send out the code until that issue hits the news-stands.

    Could you please do me a favor and e-mail me your anim?  (You
might have to split it up into little pieces for the mailer.)
Or maybe just put it on an ftp site, and I could grab it from there?
I would very much like to see it!  Thanks!

                        -- Glenn


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 238   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 14:30:55 -0600 (CST)
From: Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Lights... an easy one

On Mon, 17 Jan 1994, Brad Molsen wrote:

>         What with all the heavy duty questions I've seen asked this
> morning, I have what is probably a slam dunk to answer for all you long
> time users.
>         When I am in the staging editor I can't get the light lines to show
> up!! The camera lines show, the camera view is exactly what I'm getting
> when I render but, when I highlight "Camera Lines" I might as well be
> pressing the knot in the paneling on the wall next to my desk!!! What am I
> missing?!!!!
>                                 Novicely yours,

    Try adjusting the size way up.  The lines may be too short to see...

        Cyrus J. Kalbrener

            Digital_Cel

                "...To render, by any means necessary!"




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 239   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 13:40:18 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)
Subject: Re: Impulse, use the ASL File Requester Now!

>Anyway, Impulse, if you're listening: in the spirit of helping out, I
>have example code for all of the following.  If you ask, I'll give it to
>you, completely free, no strings attached.  It shows you exactly how to
>do the following:
>
>  o Iconification of your custom screen
>  o Display database support
>  o Finding and using the user's selected font
>  o Icon drag-and-drop (how about adding textures that way?  Or
>    brushmaps?  Or loading new objects?  Or...)
>
>Ask and thou shalt receive...  I'm sure someone else can probably donate
>example code for using datatypes, too.  We, your lowly users, are
>willing to help :-)
>
>  - steve

        Steve; You are a God: Bless you; But as all Gods soon find out
Will they really ask?
        You already handfed them for the ASL and what did you get; maybe we
will and maybe we won't.

        Mr Halverson, as I read your responses on this list it appears you
are not listening to your customers I am tired of the conversation here on
the IML about these things and wan't to move on. Since you  are so set
on side stepping these issues causing more frustration to your users, here
are some responses that might work.

1). Steve Great and thanks for the extra help. Users like you are a benifit
    to our company. We appreciate this and our next release of Imagine
    will be free for you.

2). We are grateful for the help of this information and will bust our butts
    to try and implement this for or before 4.0 we realize it is causing you
    our customer frustration and we wan't you enjoy our product.

3). Lesk; You are spending to much time on the IML quit being discouraged
    by what you are reading here and get back to work rendering!

                                                        Lesk




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 240   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jan 1994   21:43:36 GMT
Subject: Re: Lights... an easy one
     Mon, 17 Jan 1994 08:26:39 -0800


>         When I am in the staging editor I can't get the light lines to show
> up!! The camera lines show, the camera view is exactly what I'm getting
> when I render but, when I highlight "Camera Lines" I might as well be
> pressing the knot in the paneling on the wall next to my desk!!! What am I
> missing?!!!!

    I assume you are using 2.9 since that is the only version so far
to support camera and light lines.

    Anyhow, are your lights Conical or Cylindrical?  Remember those are the
only 2 for which the line will show up.  Spherical lights don't have lines.

    If you are.  Try picking the light and then hitting 'S' to scale it and
scale it up.  You should see something.  I know that the default size is kind
of small to see those line so that could be it too.

    Mike C.
    [e-mail]




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 241   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Camera sizes
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 13:18:01 PST

mime-version:1.0

> >   If you are using Imadine 2.9 all you have to do is set the Camera's
> > POV (Point Of View) to the desired focal length.  Imagine 2.9's is 90 for
> > default.  But 45 equates to a 35mm camera, and 65 is a zoom lense. Human
> > vision is around 55.  Of course if you are using Imagine 2.0 you can't use
> > this.
>
>     Thanks Greg, thats a big difference! 2.0 does not have that neat
> little feature.  I'm waiting to vote with my wallet when 3.0 is released,
> I like the sound of the POV feature.
>
>             Tyrone Marshall

Of course you can do this in 2.0! It's just not as slick. You have to transform
the size of the camera, something like setting the x size relatively larger
than the y size to produce a wide angle effect. Vice versa for telephoto. This
is all explained in Understanding Imagine. Excellent reference BTW.

--
@******************************************************************************@
*                                      "When you point your finger 'cause your *
*  Byrt Martinez                        plan fell through, you've got 3 more   *
*  - Non-Christian  8^P                 fingers pointing back at you."         *
*    (Fred 12:45)                       - Dire Straits                         *
*                                             *
*  [e-mail], [e-mail]                           *
@******************************************************************************@




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 242   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 22:38:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Peter Mancini <[e-mail]>

    I created an interesting title for the cult clasic Dark Star.
The title contains a flyby of a very unusual font, followed by a giant
fireball that backlights the title.  I did it as a 100 frame DCTV anim.
I have a test render done at HAM Quarterscreen mode.  The later is under
300K and I will upload that to wuarchive (assuming I can reach my site
at 14.4 sometime tonight.  I'm at a measly 2400 now. uhg!)

    Howe it was created.  The font started as a box in DPAINT.  I
put in lines and splines to allow for the smallest area to be removed to
convey the shape of the letter.  The 'T' is especially hard to read.  I
started to use Imagine to extrude these iff's into letters.  I changed
to pixel3d (not the latest version) because Imagine choked on the 'R'.

    The fireball is actually a morph between 3 objects.  They are
standard sphere primatives with different fog lengths, and blobc
(Essence I) attributes.  It also acts as the only light source.

    I also had fun with playing with global parameters.  The ambient
lighting changes as does the background color.  I was tempted to turn on
the global fog after the planet takes it in the teeth.  I opted for the
fade to black effect instead.

    I learned the following things:  If you set the camera size
values to do wide angle shots you better not be doing an animation.  It
will warn you that the angle is extreamly wide.  Why can't you shut this
warning off in preferences?  Is there a way to turn it off?  I am
seriously thinking about patching imagine to fix this 'bug'.  I also
learned that HAM Quarterscreen makes a great preview for animations.
60fps is easy to achieve and small file size make it easy to post.

    Changes I'd make:  Let the planet expand and disapate instead of
recollapsing on itself.  It would be nice to compare.  The final DCTV
version has more scene transition fades.

Look for darkstar.lha on wuarchive.

--Pete



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 243   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 20:09:01 PST
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
Subject: Re: GASES



>I'm wondering if anybody out there has a good tip about simulating gaseous effec
>ts im Imagine 2.0, with or without Essence I & II ? (I have both, with great tha
>nks to Steve Worley, these are GREAT !)

     And I really miss them using 2.9 ;-(. Does anyone know how to do
fractal "arcs" or "rings of impact" with the new textures? I really don't
want to get in the situation of having to composite 2.9 and 2.0
images as a routine operation......

>The sort of gaseous effects i'm looking for would be any really, but especially
>ones used in space scenes.

     Get an animated cloud generator and transparancy map the resulting
sequence on a plane (make the sky black, 0,0,0,) OR read your Essence
manual on "fractal-noise" textures and their uses. See the entries:
blobf(c), fractalcolor, bandfract and other wonderful textures..... Making
cloudy planets is on p.24.


--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).       Join the Animation Sig!


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 244   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 21:44:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Fred Crowell <[e-mail]>
Subject: GIGA-MEM


Has anyone had success with gigamem and imagine?  I just bought gigamem
and hoped to render more complex scenes with it, but it seems to keep
loading objects forever.

==============================================================================
-- Fred Crowell -- [e-mail] --
==============================================================================




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 245   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 09:00:13 +0100
From: Guido Quaroni <[e-mail]>
Subject: MORPHUS 2.0

Hi all,

I post this message to inform every Morphus and Imagine users that
I'm ready to close Morphus 2.0. An updated version of the original
PoNGo program. The program is quite finished, but before send the
package to Impulse, I would like to know if there are Morphus users
on this list and if they like the program.
Morphus 2.0 will have some unique features in the Amiga 3D comunity.
I would like to know if there are some suggestions from U.S. users so
I may improve this new release.


Ciao,
Guido Quaroni

P.S. People who own a 486 or Pentium processor can render their TDDD
files or creating completely new scenes using solidThinking with
RenderMan from PIXAR. I have developed an interatcive modeler for
NeXTSTEP, probably the most advanced O.S. available on any platform
that deliver Photorealistic RenderMan as a standard feature !!!
This is the reason so it take so long time to close Morphus 2.0 for
Amiga.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 246   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 18 Jan 94 07:03:00 EST
From: "Andrew Church" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: GIGA-MEM

>Has anyone had success with gigamem and imagine?  I just bought gigamem
>and hoped to render more complex scenes with it, but it seems to keep
>loading objects forever.

  I don't know for sure in your case, but it's probably just using a lot of
virtual memory.  I once tried doing a simple picture conversion (GIF->IFF)
that required me to use virtual memory (large picture, little memory), and
it took forever!  Well, not quite - I reset after about half an hour.  :-)

  --Andy Church



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 247   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 07:13:49 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Impulse, use the ASL File Requester Now!


>         You already handfed them for the ASL and what did you get; maybe we
> will and maybe we won't.

>         Mr Halverson, as I read your responses on this list it appears you
> are not listening to your customers I am tired of the conversation here on

Lesk,

I agree with your basic sentiment - I've felt that way a lot too.  But
to Mike Halverson's defense here, he did reply to me privately this
morning and said essentially, "Send us code, we'll look at it", which is
what I hoped for.  I plan to spend a little time this weekend making a
few packages of code to send to Impulse.  I'll probably start with the
display database, since it seems Imagine is already smart enough to cope
with different screen sizes, so it should be quite easy.  Since Imagine
is one of my most often used apps, I'm certainly willing to do this if
we have a chance of geting a better program out of it.

I understand that they can't promise when or even if they'll do these
things.  But just having them *listen* is a Good Thing(tm) I believe.  A
lot of people have complained about Impulse in the past (myself
included), mostly with good reason.  But also I believe some positive
things have been happening recently: they announced a program to tell
3rd parties about formats for textures & FX and such; they became active
on the IML; and they at least seem to be listening now to what people
are saying.  Maybe things can get turned around yet... I hope we can be
as vocal in telling them when they're doing good as we are telling them
when they're screwing up :-).  If things keep going in this direction
I'll feel a lot better about the future of Imagine.

Thanks,

  - steve

PS - I can't take credit for the ASL code though - I believe that was
Jeff Wahaus's doing.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 248   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: GIGA-MEM
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 12:59:43 -0500 (EST)
X-Department: Department of Redundancy Department

>>Has anyone had success with gigamem and imagine?  I just bought gigamem
>>and hoped to render more complex scenes with it, but it seems to keep
>>loading objects forever.
>
>   I don't know for sure in your case, but it's probably just using a lot of
> virtual memory.  I once tried doing a simple picture conversion (GIF->IFF)
> that required me to use virtual memory (large picture, little memory), and
> it took forever!  Well, not quite - I reset after about half an hour.  :-)

Udo's tips for using Imagine with GigaMem:

1. It helps if you increase the buffer size of GigaMem.  Too small a buffer
   and anything it reads or writes starts hitting VM.  Likewise, your
   buffer shouldn't be too large, either.  5% to 10% of your VM is,
   perhaps, a good starting point (i.e. 20MB VM --> 1MB - 2MB buffer.) Go
   higher if you have the memory, but leave yourself real Fast RAM for the
   programs that you run; code doesn't go into VM, only dynamic allocations.

2. Change the memory size for Imagine in GigaMem Preferences to something
   smaller than 10000.  This is the size of memory requests which can get
   satisfied with virtual memory.  If you make this TOO small then Imagine
   will start storing every dynamic allocation in VM, which isn't exactly
   what you want.  Try 1024, 512, 256, ... until you're happy.  Doesn't
   have to be a power of 2, btw.

As for use of GigaMem with ADPro's Landscape loader, this one jumps across
VM so that it does a read/write operation for every pixel in the image
because it loads it in column-order.  Don't use Landscape with GigaMem and
ADPro :-/

 ._.  Udo Schuermann
 ( )  [e-mail]


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 249   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 11:31:50 -0800 (PST)
From: ANIEMANN <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Fog and Filter
Autoforwarded: false
Importance: normal
Priority: normal
Sensitivity: Company-Confidential
Ua-Content-Id: 118192DF2F00
Hop-Count: 1

Yes ! Global fog is very unpredictable I find also. As already suggested I
also make a large fog box and plunk it down just in front of the camera.
However I put the axis of this box at the right place just outside of the
box and track it with the camera. Otherwise, oif you ever fly into the fog
box the fog disappears.
andy





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 250   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Eric Kilkenny)
Subject: Appre' Mation
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:00:44 -0800 (PST)

    So does anyone Know much about this Image Proccesing Program
called "Appre' Mation"  that Impulse is suppose to release along
with Imagine 3.0?  I guess thats the program that will do the
Post Proccessing to produce the LensFlare ect...  I also read
something that said it will produce quite a few other effects
also.  Like Sparkles or something.  So does any one know if
Impulse is Still Going to be doing this or not.  Sounds Like an
Intereting Program.  Perhaps if it's tied in with Imagine,
Impulse could stick an Arexx Port into it.
    I guess As long as I'm here I may as well say the An
Arexx Port is the Main Thing I would Want Imagine to have.

    Later Everyone!



Direct to you From OREGON ...             \   |   /
                               /\             |
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\  //\\ keeeer.. \   /
       [e-mail]       \\///\\\______  plink!  _____
                            \//  \\____       *
Hunter at "The Big Picture"  /    \____\     /
           [phone]   /          \\   //| \
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/  beep!     \\_// |
                                         \_/      \
::::A2500 w/030 CPU @ 25Mhz:::: Keep on Rendering!




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 251   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 13:56:44 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Re: MORPHUS 2.0

Hi Guido,

   First, are you on the IML?  Or just posting to it.  I sent to you as
well as the list just in case.
   Second, I don't have Morphus, but I've seen what it can do and have been
thinking about buying it.  Maybe this new release will convince me.

>
> I post this message to inform every Morphus and Imagine users that
> I'm ready to close Morphus 2.0. An updated version of the original
> PoNGo program. The program is quite finished, but before send the
> package to Impulse, I would like to know if there are Morphus users
> on this list and if they like the program.
> Morphus 2.0 will have some unique features in the Amiga 3D comunity.
> I would like to know if there are some suggestions from U.S. users so
> I may improve this new release.

Maybe you could post some of the features of the new release, so we can
tell you what would be nice in addition.  From what I saw of the old
version, the manual and user interface need some work(a GUI would be nice).
Also, have you seen how Caligari does free form deformations.  This is nice.
Well its probably too late for major changes, but .... you asked:)


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 252   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:23:54 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)
Subject: Object light plight!

        Spent 3 hrs last night trying to create object light per Steve
Worley's instructions in his book. No Go!!! Must be missing something but,
I don't know what!!!
        Step 1. add axis
        Step 2. rotated axis so "y" is facing down (since light is suppose
to
                  travel along y axis)
        Step 3. highlighted "light" in axis attributes requester
        Step 4. selected conical and hit ok
        Step 5. scaled axis about 100 times size
        Step 6. saved axis as ltax
        Step 7. created light desktype with "sweep" and made it candyapple blue
        Step 8. saved blue light as blult
        Step 9. picked blult and then ltax moved itax under blult and
grouped
                  them
        Step 10. saved group as blultax
        Step 11. went to Stage editor and loaded blultax object
        Step 12. set up external light and camera positions
        Step 13. Saved Changes in stage editor
        Step 14. went to Project editor and generated frame
        Step 15. Showed frame
     All that showed for the next 3 hrs whether I scaled ltax larger in
detail editor after ungrouping or tried loading objects in same orientation
ungrouped was my candyapple light fixture in a sea of black. No cone of
light appeared from it no matter how large I made the ltax!!!!!
     What crucial step am I missing? I mean for 3 hrs I should at least
have seen a small glimmer!!!! Please help me out, ridicule will be welcomed
as long a s I get an answer to my mistake! There is no ego involved here I
just want to learn this tool!!!
                                Novicely yours,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Toasters don't burn toast. People burn toast."
                        Curator Seattle Toaster Museum

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 253   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 18 Jan 94 08:17:19 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)
Subject: AF Upgrade


Does anyone of you know whether it's still possible to order Imagine 3, by
the offer in Amiga Format Issue 53 'December 93' where the upgrade price
were only 75....

   _:        Sren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
   |  A2000c/68030/68882/9/345/33Mhz   /_______\                    |
   .                                                                .
... I brake for Unicorns.
-Via DDDGate 1.45 @ 2:230/418.0, 18 Jan 94  09:05:42


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 254   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 11:40:06 -0700
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]>
Subject: 1-plane screen as a speedup
X-Organization: VeriFone
X-Ps-Qualifiers:
 /FONT=Courier-Bold/LINES=66/LEFT_MARGIN=36/CALCULATE/TOP_MARGIN=36/BOTTOM_MARGIN=36
X-Envelope-To: email.sp.paramax.com!imagine
X-Vms-Cc: JEFF_W1


>After all the discussions on speeding up Imagine, I noticed that several people
>have mentioned putting a 1-plane black screen up during the render to speed
>things up.  Although I didn't quite understand the explanation of why this
>works (trusting, aren't I?), I decided to give it a try.

  I should have mentioned that this works with ECS machines.  On the
newer AGA machines I don't think they slow down at 16 colors at all.
Now if you are using overscan (arn't we all) then it might speed up
AGA machines as well.

  The reason for the speedup is thus:  With 640 pixel wide screens and
wider (with overscan) using 16 colors there will be a small amount of
DMA contention between the Amiga display hardware and the CPU.  What
this means it that both the display hardware and the CPU are trying to
get access to the system bus as the same time.  When this happens the
display hardware is given the bus and the CPU has to wait.  So the
display hardware "steals" cycles from the CPU in this case.

  When using <16 colors this contention goes away.  As I stated before
the AGA machines don't have this problem with 16 colors.  They probablly
don't experience contention until you use more than 128 colors.

  In any case the speedup with ECS machines is small (around 5%).  So
unless you measure it your not really going to notice it.  But on long
renders even 5% can be significant.

  It would be interesting to find out for sure what the effect on
an AGA machine is.  If you have bumped Imagine up from 640x400 to
something larger like 720x480 then I would bet that even AGA machines
benifit from the 1-plane screen to front speedup.

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 255   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 18:08:18 -0400 (AST)
From: the Shockwave Surfer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Public Sceen


To Impulse:
    Could you please do a 30 second search-and-replace on your code
and add a SA_PubName tag and then spend 30 minutes adding support for
SA_PubTask and SA_PubSig, and call PubScreenStatus() to make your screens
public? My render-farming project-sequencing SW can't easily interface to
your program without me wedging CloseScreen(), and that's not the
Commodore/David Carradine Tia-Chi way of doing things, if you get my drift...

    Thanx....

oh, BTW, AREXX is my #1 choice for Imagine's Most Needed Capability list.
Just to help you prioritize things :)



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 256   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date:  Tue, 18 Jan 1994 17:05:37 -0500
 [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.815:18.00.94.22.05.39]
From: "rob (r.d.) hounsell" <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Backdrops and transparent images

Folks,

  Can anyone tell me if backdrops are now visible through transparent objects
in Imagine 2.9 / 3.0 ?  (in 2.0, the sky colour in the global atts. is what is
seen, so an object is never "invisible" if a backdrop is present).

Thx
Rob
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Rob Hounsell                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@NMERH53           |
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| System Performance:                    PHONE: [phone]                |
| Paradigm Club Design Team. Dept. PS27  ESN: 395-2904                        |
| Northern Telecom Public Switching                                           |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 257   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
Subject: Re: re re re Speed
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 17:15:31 PST


Tyrone Marshall writes:

> You need more speed, get a faster accelerator board,
>
> Get yourself multiple amigas

Of course, that all goes without saying.  Still, every microsecond that
they can shave off of rendering times is good.  Having more/faster hard-
ware is NO excuse for not writing the tightest, most efficient software
possible.  Ever heard the term "bloatware"?

No, I'm not saying Imagine is bloatware - it's pretty good - but there's
ALWAYS room for improvement, regardless.


BTW: There's no need to Cc: me a copy of your mail, I am on the list, so
I end up getting two copies.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 258   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 21:47:33 PST
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
Subject: Re: Backdrops and transparent images



>
>Folks,
>
>  Can anyone tell me if backdrops are now visible through transparent objects
>in Imagine 2.9 / 3.0 ?  (in 2.0, the sky colour in the global atts. is what is
>seen, so an object is never "invisible" if a backdrop is present).
>
>Thx
>Rob

     Nope, the fog/backdrop/tranparency bugs are still there. Makes doing
an underwater scene a pain. I've been basing an animation on Seaquest's
effects and have a BIG WISH for a better lighting system in Imagine. For
the record though, I've got a pretty good scene for 1/10th the price of
Lightwave.......

                                          Christopher

ps. Thinking about it, Essence II's caustics would come in handy for
near-surface effects..... I hope they're ported to 2.9, I'd even pay full
price for them again (not that I WANT to, don't get me wrong ;-).



--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).       Join the Animation Sig!


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 259   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:05:21 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Books etc.

My first posting attempt......

I'd like a decent book or two on Imagine 2, but can't find anything here in
England. Does anyone have a title I could try and ask for. The only ones I've
heard of, the bookstores cannot find on English or American catalogs. If you
could give me an ISBN number & publisher etc. that might help.

Ta!

( Hope this works.... )

AJB


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 260   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Hong Kong Fuey <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 13:04:27 GMT
Subject: Holes.

Hello...

Is there any (easy???!!!) way of putting holes in things, for example a hole
through a sphere, or disc etc.. (preferably circular holes, although any shape
will do). I'm buggered if I know!!!

Byeeeeee....SP.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 261   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 07:58:31 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)
Subject: Re: Books etc.

>My first posting attempt......
>
>I'd like a decent book or two on Imagine 2, but can't find anything here in
>England. Does anyone have a title I could try and ask for. The only ones I've
>heard of, the bookstores cannot find on English or American catalogs. If you
>could give me an ISBN number & publisher etc. that might help.
>
>Ta!
>
>( Hope this works.... )
>
>AJB
        AJB, I'm sure the one that you will be referred to the most is

                Understanding Imagine 2.0 by Steven Worley
                Apex Software Publishing
                405 El Camino Real Suite 121
                Menlo Park, Ca 94025
        Get a hold of this one and you'll be well on your way to uh....
understanding Imagine 2.0.
                                later,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Toasters don't burn toast. People burn toast."
                        Curator Seattle Toaster Museum

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 262   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Hack..*sniff*  (moan)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:02:38 CST


Greetings,

This is Scott again - My apolagies for not being on the net recently.
I've been sick for the last week - too sick to deal with a computer.
I'll try to catch up an respond to what some of you have written, but
I'm also a week behind here at Impulse so - no guarantees...

Be back on line soon...                 sk...


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 263   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 08:05:17 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)
Subject: Re: Holes.

>Hello...
>
>Is there any (easy???!!!) way of putting holes in things, for example a hole
>through a sphere, or disc etc.. (preferably circular holes, although any shape
>will do). I'm buggered if I know!!!
>
>Byeeeeee....SP.
 Seems to me that using slice would be the easiest way to put a hole in an
object. Load a primative sphere, load a primitive cylinder, shove the
cylinder thru the sphere (either all the way or thru just one side and
slice. You should get the results that you want. I just did something
simular with an egg object I had to remove some surface from before I had
an object breaking out of it.
                                later,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Toasters don't burn toast. People burn toast."
                        Curator Seattle Toaster Museum

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 264   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 12:27:20 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Re: Holes.


> Hello...
>
> Is there any (easy???!!!) way of putting holes in things, for example a hole
> through a sphere, or disc etc.. (preferably circular holes, although any shape
> will do). I'm buggered if I know!!!
>
> Byeeeeee....SP.
>

Sure.  Slice!  One of the most powerful tools in Imagine(IMO), if you can
live with that damn error requester popping up all the time.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 265   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 13:05:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: imagine pc requirements

On 19 Jan 1994 [e-mail] wrote:

>      In terms of minimum system requirements, what is needed to run
>      imagine on the ibm?
You need a 386&387, or a 486DX (NOT the SX!), as fast as you can afford.
The RAM limitations are about the same.
>
>      What is the cost of the software upgrade - amiga>ibm?
I paid $100.
>
>      Is object/scene complexity limited by ram as on the amiga?
Yes, Imagine doesn't have a virtual renderer yet.  If this is a major
concern, look at products like Envisage 3D that have virtual rendering
engines.
>
>      If so, is there a virtual memory program available for the pc
>      like GIGAMEM?
I don't know of one.  Memory management on the PC is wonky because of the
640K limit, and Impulse has not made Imagine compatible with the most
commonly used PC memory managers.  Therefore, it won't run in a Windows
environment.
>
>      Can I get an automatic file compression utility like PEGGER for
>      the pc to save HD space?
Yes, in fact DOS 6.2 has the utility built-in.
>
>      Any/all responses welcome...
Good luck, e-mail me privately if you need more details.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------






+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 266   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
    id <[e-mail]> with CCTORFC Wed Jan 19 18:26:05 1994
Date: 19 Jan 94 10:18:00 -0800
Subject: imagine pc requirements

     Thanks for any help in advance!


     In terms of minimum system requirements, what is needed to run
     imagine on the ibm?

     What is the cost of the software upgrade - amiga>ibm?

     Is object/scene complexity limited by ram as on the amiga?

     If so, is there a virtual memory program available for the pc
     like GIGAMEM?

     Can I get an automatic file compression utility like PEGGER for
     the pc to save HD space?

     Any/all responses welcome...


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 267   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 16:48:13 -0700
From: [e-mail] (R. Todd Frazier)
Subject: How to build anims


    I am having trouble building some anims.  I have an A1200, and have
rendered 50 frames in IFF24 format.  I am trying to build a HAM8 animation.

    I tried Rend24, and it displays the first pic alright, but the second
pic is displayed in regular HAM mode instead of HAM8.  I have messed with it
alot, but only the first frame is in HAM8, the rest are in HAM.

    I then tried buildanim.  The man page does not tell me alot.  Basically
it says 'buildanim infile outfile options'  It not clear what infile is. How
do I specify a series of frames to use.  I tried using wild cards, and even
using just one frame like 'buildanim pic.0001 anim SHOW'.  But it guru's
every time.

    I then tried mkanim, but it doesn't seem to use HAM8 mode.

    So what is everybody using.  I wish rend24 worked, it looks nice.  I
just want to build a HAM8 animation.

    Thanks,
    Todd Frazier



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 268   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Scott Pack,SQA)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 14:38:49 PDT
Subject: RE: Holes.


>Sure.  Slice!  One of the most powerful tools in Imagine(IMO), if you can
>live with that damn error requester popping up all the time.

Below is a old IML post from Erdem Ertan about the slice error.  I haven't
tried doing what is suggested, but it would be worth a try!  Maybe someone
could check and see.  If it works, this tip should be added to the FAQ.

BEGIN INCLUDE
    When I first learn about Imagine,I read the book 'Understanding
Imagine 2.0 '.In this book,It says that when error 2 is occured while
using slice command,try to move the objects a little bit and try again
and if it doesnt work try to find another way.Here I found another way:
    When slice command doesnt work,first select the smallest objects that
will slice the large object.Then enter pick faces mode and select the
faces that intersects the other object,then use the fracture command.
Then try slice command again and now it works.
    Maybe this info will be useless in Imagine 3.0 ,but it is still
useful for Imagine 2.0 users.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-         ERDEM ERTAN             [e-mail]            -
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
END INCLUDE

-Scott
[e-mail]




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 269   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jan 1994   00:31:47 GMT
Subject: Re: imagine pc requirements
     Wed, 19 Jan 1994 13:05:51 -0800 (PST)


> >
> >      Can I get an automatic file compression utility like PEGGER for
> >      the pc to save HD space?
> Yes, in fact DOS 6.2 has the utility built-in.
>

    Hey!  Really?  What is it?  How does it work and what does it do?
Maybe I will upgrade soon.  Thanks!

Mike C.
[e-mail]





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 270   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 02:15:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Collett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 1-plane black screen



On Mon, 17 Jan 1994, Rob Freundlich wrote:

> After all the discussions on speeding up Imagine, I noticed that several people
> have mentioned putting a 1-plane black screen up during the render to speed
> things up.  Although I didn't quite understand the explanation of why this
> works (trusting, aren't I?), I decided to give it a try.
>
> Fired up the editor, wrote a quickie to open a 1-plane, all black screen.  Now
> I've got it sitting in my ToolManager dock so I can call it up whenever I need
> it.
>
> I haven't noticed a marked speedup, but then I haven't tried anything complex
> either.
>
> Anyone interested in a copy of this program?  I'll gladly post it here or mail
> it to individuals.  The lha file is ~6K.
>

One fast way I do it, is to change the workbench to 2 color, and put in
front.  Then open a shell and select it so as to turn off the mem free
status on the menu bar.  It works....

> +---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
> |Rob Freundlich                         |#define SYSOP GOD                    |
> |IDX Systems Corporation                |#define REALITY NULL                 |
> |[e-mail]     <- You Are Here |                                     |
> |[e-mail]                 |Diseased Programmers do it in MUMPS! |
> +---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
> |     Amiga 4000/040/25MHz/10M/120M - No IBM clone even comes close!          |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> |  "Some folks you don't have to satirize, ya just quote 'em" - Tom Paxton    |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> |#include <stdio.h> int main() {printf("My opinions not my IDX's");return(0);}|
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>

[e-mail]




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 271   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 8:38:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Freundlich <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 1-plane black screen

On Thursday, 1/20, (2:15AM!!!!!!  Get some sleep!!!!!) , Ray Collett sez:

>On Mon, 17 Jan 1994, Rob Freundlich wrote:

>> After all the discussions on speeding up Imagine, I noticed that several
>> people
>> have mentioned putting a 1-plane black screen up during the render to speed

>One fast way I do it, is to change the workbench to 2 color, and put in
>front.  Then open a shell and select it so as to turn off the mem free
>status on the menu bar.  It works....

This is fast?  I'd have to close all my non-drawer windows, open Prefs, open
the ScreenMode Pref, change the depth, save it, then open a shell.  Even so,
I'd still have a white menu bar (I've got 3.0 and NewLook).

With my prog, I just click on its button in my ToolManager Dock and the screen
goes black.

Oh, and to all the folks who said "yes, I'll take a copy" - when I get my brain
on straight and remember to xfer it, you'll get it :-)  If aminet is accepting
new uploads by then, I'll post it there too.

+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
|Rob Freundlich                         |#define SYSOP GOD                    |
|IDX Systems Corporation                |#define REALITY NULL                 |
|[e-mail]     <- You Are Here |                                     |
|[e-mail]                 |Diseased Programmers do it in MUMPS! |
+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
|     Amiga 4000/040/25MHz/10M/120M - No IBM clone even comes close!          |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  "Some folks you don't have to satirize, ya just quote 'em" - Tom Paxton    |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|#include <stdio.h> int main() {printf("My opinions not my IDX's");return(0);}|
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 272   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 07:18:42 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: How to build anims


[e-mail] (R. Todd Frazier) wrote:

>     I tried Rend24, and it displays the first pic alright, but the second
> pic is displayed in regular HAM mode instead of HAM8.  I have messed with it

A long time ago I had tried Rend24 had a lot of problems getting it to
work also.  There *are* a few good PD tools which can build anims
(either ANIM5 or ANIM7) reasonably, but someone else will have to chime
in with the names since I've forgotten.  What I do use, though, is
ImageFX.  It is great for this sort of thing - you can build the IFF
anim from any incoming image type (say, jpeg), and you can perform
whatever image processing steps you want to each frame as you build it.
(Sometimes, for example, I add a title to each frame, or lighten/darken
the frames, or resize them).  ImageFX is a little on the expensive side,
but well worth it, IMHO (and not just for building anims - it is
fantastic at a lot of other image processing things).

Another thing I have discovered: it is almost always better to have
Imagine render to 24 bit, and down-convert to your favorite format after
rendering.  You'll get much better results that way.  And last but not
least, if you are using HAM8, you probably want to build ANIM7
animations.  You'll be able to play back a whole lot faster.  I've also
noticed there is a big difference in quality when doing 24 bit->HAM8
conversions between a freeware tool such as VT or Rend24 and a good
image processor such as ImageFX.  (Which is a little odd, since VT and
ImageFX were written by the same guy :-) ).  I've found ImageFX to do a
quite noticeably better job at this conversion than the freeware tools
do, especially for pictures with a lot of fine detail.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 273   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 07:51:39 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: GIGA-MEM


Somebody wrote:

> >>Has anyone had success with gigamem and imagine?  I just bought gigamem
> >>and hoped to render more complex scenes with it, but it seems to keep
> >>loading objects forever.

I've had pretty good luck using VMM40 (which is a freeware virtual
memory program) with Imagine.  I've been able to render scenes taking
about twice the amount of my free physical memory with no troubles.  It
doesn't even seem to slow down rendering all that much - maybe a little,
but no more than a few percent at most for the scenes I tried.

(Although I suspect if you push it too far, such as maybe trying to
render a scene needing 20 Mb in a mere 4 Mb of physical RAM, you're
going to have troubles).

It is on aminet.  You need an 040 to use it - it doesn't grok 68030s.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 274   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 10:50:16 -0600 (CST)
From: Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: imagine pc requirements

On 20 Jan 1994 [e-mail] wrote:

> > >      Can I get an automatic file compression utility like PEGGER for
> > >      the pc to save HD space?
> > Yes, in fact DOS 6.2 has the utility built-in.
>
>     Hey!  Really?  What is it?  How does it work and what does it do?
> Maybe I will upgrade soon.  Thanks!

Be careful.  Almost everyone I spoken with who use software disk
compression has had a failure of some sort or another.  That Doesn't mean it
doens't work.  It does.  It just is not 100%.  Backup often if you do use it.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Cliff Lee
 [e-mail]
 "Everything will work out if you let it!" Cheap Trick




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 275   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 11:38:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: How to build anims


On Wed, 19 Jan 1994, R. Todd Frazier wrote:

>
>     I am having trouble building some anims.  I have an A1200, and have
> rendered 50 frames in IFF24 format.  I am trying to build a HAM8 animation.
>
>     I tried Rend24, and it displays the first pic alright, but the second
> pic is displayed in regular HAM mode instead of HAM8.  I have messed with it
> alot, but only the first frame is in HAM8, the rest are in HAM.
>
>     So what is everybody using.  I wish rend24 worked, it looks nice.  I
> just want to build a HAM8 animation.


    Try MainActor 2.1.  It will build anims out of HAM8 or lower
resoulution pics, and will save in anim7_32 and anim8_32 for faster
playback.  The only draw back is that frames must first be converted to
HAM8 from 24 bit.

    Cyrus J. Kalbrener

        Digital_Cel




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 276   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
Subject: Re: imagine pc requirements
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 13:39:48 -0500 (EST)

> > >      Can I get an automatic file compression utility like PEGGER for
> > >      the pc to save HD space?
> > Yes, in fact DOS 6.2 has the utility built-in.
> >
>     Hey!  Really?  What is it?  How does it work and what does it do?
> Maybe I will upgrade soon.  Thanks!
>
This might be a reference to DBLSPACE, which creates an entirely
compressed disk volume. It sounds like PEGGER creates jpeg files, not the
same function as the disk compression included with DOS 6.0 and above.

Given Imagine/PC's inability to co-exist with anything but the bare bones
system config, I'd suggest avoiding the DBLSPACE utility. There might be
some command line jpeg compressors for DOS.

Andrew.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 277   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (bob chadwick)
Subject: Building animations...
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 11:56:10 CST


     The method I use for building animations has always been high quality
and fast - the ADPro and FRED combination. This is an easy process, if you
own the ADPro package. And since ADPro is probably the best image
processing package around, you can perform anything on the image before
saving to animation, like Blur, Convolutions, anything. And with some
scaling tricks, you can even put anti-aliasing on your image. (Not blur.)
And you can save the animation in the fast Anim8 format, which is playable
with Viewtek. I guess no other software package can compete with the
flexibility and speed of these (I'm NOT form ASDG), but anywayz, if you are
seriously into 3D, ADPro is the second thing everybody should get after the
3D software...

                             Greg Kovacs
                             [e-mail]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just started to play with LightWave 3.0 a couple of days ago. You guyz at
Impulse better work on Imagine 3.0...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 278   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 10:46:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: imagine pc requirements

>
> > >
> > >      Can I get an automatic file compression utility like PEGGER for
> > >      the pc to save HD space?
> > Yes, in fact DOS 6.2 has the utility built-in.
> >
>
>     Hey!  Really?  What is it?  How does it work and what does it do?
>
It's called DoubleSpace, and the 6.0 version was terminally buggy.  I've
got a friend who's using it for his entire system, though, and has been
running Imagine without a problem.  Check out the current (2/94) issue of
BYTE magazine for a cover article on compression.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 279   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: imagine pc requirements
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 10:15:00 PST


> > >      Can I get an automatic file compression utility like PEGGER for
> > >      the pc to save HD space?
> > Yes, in fact DOS 6.2 has the utility built-in.
> >
>
>         Hey!  Really?  What is it?  How does it work and what does it do?
> Maybe I will upgrade soon.  Thanks!
>
> Mike C.
> [e-mail]

The feature is called DoubleSpace.  DoubleSpace places itself between MS-DOS
and your hard drive, compressing data before writing, decompressing it
before reading it.  6.2 also includes several other useful utilities (hard
disk defragger, anti-virus utility, memory optimizer, etc).  If you decide
it isn't for you, 6.2 will also uninstall itself, giving you back your
original DOS.

I've had it working on my work and home machines, and never lost a byte.
 Even when it was in the Alpha stage (I was on the development team for
MS-DOS 6 -- I worked on the setup program).

Let me know how you like it!

 -- Roy Harper <[e-mail]>
 -----
Standard Disclamer:  I don't speak for Microsoft.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 280   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 19:42:14 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Building animations...


> And since ADPro is probably the best image processing package around,

Nah.  ImageFX = ADPro on steroids :-)

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 281   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 19:34:14 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: imagine pc requirements
    <[e-mail]>


> It's called DoubleSpace, and the 6.0 version was terminally buggy.  I've

There's another one for the PC called, I think, Stacker.  I bought a
PCMCIA RAM card for my palmtop which came with this.  It is rather
basic, but it has worked flawlessly for me so far.  Then again, I've
never tried running something with the complexity of Imagine with it.

I've also used the XPK on the amiga side with excellent results.

I don't know much about it, but I think "pegger" is something a little
different than these things.  Instead of generic HD compression, it does
image specific compression (maybe it patches file open/close functions
at a system level?  I dunno, just guessing).  So it converts other image
types to jpeg when you save and back when you load, but leaves all other
data alone.  Or something like that.  That way you get much better
compression ratios on images than you would with a generic "do-it-all"
compression algorithm ala Stacker or XPK (often these things don't
compress image data very well).  I've never had much of a need for such
a thing so I dunno about the details.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 282   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 00:09:16 -0400 (EST)
From: ecorbin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: imagine pc requirements


On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Steve Koren wrote:

> I don't know much about it, but I think "pegger" is something a little
> different than these things.  Instead of generic HD compression, it does
> image specific compression (maybe it patches file open/close functions
> at a system level?  I dunno, just guessing).  So it converts other image
> types to jpeg when you save and back when you load, but leaves all other
> data alone.  Or something like that.  That way you get much better
> compression ratios on images than you would with a generic "do-it-all"
> compression algorithm ala Stacker or XPK (often these things don't
> compress image data very well).  I've never had much of a need for such
> a thing so I dunno about the details.
>
>   - steve

I've seen a lot of messages on this so let me try to clarify.

Disclaimer:  I don't own either of these programs, but I've read about
or used both.

Pegger is an amiga program that watches a directory and compresses or
decompresses JPEG <-> IFF, so you can use amiga programs that don't
accept jpeg images with jpeg images.

DoubleSpace is an MSDOS utility that makes a disk hold about twice as
much as it did before.  It compresses the whole disk, and changes the
autoexec.bat or config.sys to run a little TSR to decompress/compress
files as they are loaded into memory.

If I'm wrong on any of this, corrections are welcome.

Earl C.
[e-mail]





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 283   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
    id AA10803; Fri, 21 Jan 94 05:50:07 GMT
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 05:50:07 GMT
Subject: T3DLIB R41 ReadWrite bug


    Luca Guerri just pointed out a nasty bug in ReadWrite in
T3DLIB R41.  It mangles objects horribly... don't use it!  I'll try
and squish the bug as soon as I can...
                            -- Glenn



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 284   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
    id AA10868; Fri, 21 Jan 94 06:08:40 GMT
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 06:08:40 GMT
Subject: T3DLIB R41 ReadWrite bug


    I have verified that the object-mangling bug only exists in
the FPU version of readwrite, and not the 68000/NoFPU version, which
smells like a SAS/C 6.50 compiler bug to me...  I'll try removing the
optimization flag and see what happens.  But if anyone knows why this
may be happening, please get in touch with me.  Thanks!

                            -- Glenn


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 285   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 19:40:00 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Saffold)
Subject: Re: GIGA-MEM



Uucp> Has anyone had success with gigamem and imagine?  I just bought
Uucp> gigamem
Uucp> and hoped to render more complex scenes with it, but it seems to keep
Uucp> loading objects forever.

Well, Gigamem will slow things down a bit, specially with large
objects/scenes.  It will work, but you will have to be VERY patient.

 * Q-Blue 1.0* ...Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy.
--
*******************************************************************
*  Cuerna Verde BBS FidoNet Gateway  *  Data/Fax: [phone]  *
*  Pueblo, Colorado USA              *  FidoNet:  1:307/18        *
*******************************************************************


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 286   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Help With Imagine
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 01:44:55 PST

Those who are new to this list and are struggling with Imagine 2.0, whether
from Amiga Format or any other source, might appreciate knowing about my
book of tutorials.  The Imagine Companion contains over 200 pages of well-
illustrated step-by-step tutorials covering cycle animation, lighting,
fog objects, face modeling, and much more.  To order from USA, send $29.95
check or MO (postpaid) to:

Motion Blur Publishing
915A Stambaugh St.
Redwood City, CA 94063

Oh yes, included free is a tutorial disk; specify Amiga or PC format.  For
more info, call 1-415-364-2009 any day after 10 AM Pacific time.

- David Duberman


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 287   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 01:36:39 PST
From: 21-Jan-1994 0424 <[e-mail]>
Subject: re gigamem



>Well, Gigamem will slow things down a bit, specially with large
>objects/scenes.  It will work, but you will have to be VERY patient.

 This is the nature of the beast. I have 18meg (including chip) and am
 going to try to optimize Gigamem for my system. I expect to use a 150meg
 partition on an ide drive as vm space. It slows things down a bit when I
 scan into ADPro but it is not as bad as i thought. I scanned a 27meg
 image the first night I got Gigamem. It enables me to do things I could
 not otherwise do. It will take some effort to use it wisely. For example
 I have to learn when to shut it down if possable, or at least set it up
 to kick in only when necessary. Remember that in Imagine you will access
 Gigamem constantly because it is for all intents and purposeses your ram.
 Is gigamem loading or compiling when you see disk activity ? I really dont
 know because I don't know enough about Imagine's internals. I'm glad to have
 the added functionalitynoe I need to learn to work around the speed thing.
 GEE it always come back to that!
                                bill


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 288   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 07:10:36 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: imagine pc requirements
    <[e-mail]>


> Pegger is an amiga program that watches a directory and compresses or
> decompresses JPEG <-> IFF

> DoubleSpace is an MSDOS utility that makes a disk hold about twice as
> much as it did before.  It compresses the whole disk, and changes the

> If I'm wrong on any of this, corrections are welcome.

I think you're right, or at least pretty close.  (Of course, the problem
with DoubleSpace or XPK style things is they don't compress images very
well, since they don't understand that images are images and can't take
advantage of spatial coherence & other cool image-specific things).

But also, would pegger not have to be doing more than just "watching
directories"?  That'd work for file writes - after you see an IFF
written to disk, you could convert it to jpeg and store it back.  But
what about the other direction (reads)?  I think for that, you would
have to patch either the file open or read functions in dos.library on a
system-wide basis.  Or maybe both.  That's the only way I can think of
to fool the reading program into thinking it is getting an IFF instead
of a jpeg.  Maybe someone who has pegger can comment about how it
actually works?  (I mean, not what it does, but how it does it).  I am
thinking that this would not be a hard program to write assuming you
already had JPEG<->IFF functions.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 289   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 07:05:59 +1100
From: [e-mail]


>I've had pretty good luck using VMM40 (which is a freeware virtual
>memory program) with Imagine.  I've been able to render scenes taking

    I could not get VMM40 to work on my 4000. It would not allow me
    to select a device. I went out and purchased Gigamem last night.
    I bought it mostly for ADPro but it ran well with Imagine. I
    only went out and loaded a whole bunch of objects to see if
    it would work. I haven't got around to rendering yet though.
    I have my buffer at 4meg, and cahs set to 400kb. I am using
    a 150meg cart for the Iomega as VM space. I wplan on redoing
    my partitions this weekend because I can use a faster drive,
    and don't really want to tie up the multidisk. I have a good feeling
    about Gigamem so far.
                                bill



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 290   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 08:32:59 +1100
From: [e-mail]


I had this sent to me from a friend of mine and figures that some of
you out there might be interested.  For this who don't have FTP access but
can uuencode, I would be happy to post them for you.

IMPORTANT!!  Anims must be MPEGed!  Quicktime is also submitable, but who
would want to do that?  GIF, JPEG and BMP are what is wanted for stills.
I'm trying to get this guy to get a hold of a toaster, and if I do, I'll let
you all know so IFF anims could then be submitted.

    Cyrus J. Kalbrener

        Digital_Cel        Read On \/


ATTENTION IMAGE-MAKERS AROUND THE GLOBE
    SHINE BRIGHT IN NORTHERN USA AROUND
          ENAMOURED AND SWEATING BODIES

        The Rogue nightclub
         CyberPlex and the
        ever twinkly OTIS combine
        forces to present....

            s m a r t B O M B
                          1.0

                   the first in a
            series of live hybrid
           digital media experiences,
            on-line and video experiments

            FRIDAY JANUARY 28
           1994 ----<          and
                  SATURDAY JANUARY 29

             Minneapolis, MN  USA


        Video walls and computer
        screens will display any
        visuals, animations or
        texts you deposit at the
        designated FTP site,
        including images that
        arrive during the event
        (8pm-~3am CST, USA).

        All you need to do is
        FTP your contributions to:

        sunsite.unc.edu
        /pub/multimedia/pictures/OTIS/smartBOMB

        ALL IMAGES ACCEPTED
            send messages of peace
            show pictures of your cat
            expose digital video of your nephew
            blowing out his birthday candles
            make fun of the president
            send GIFs of your baby's ultrasounds
            upload your favorite fractals
            scan your maliable body-parts

        smartBOMB is trying to build
        a massive stockpile of images
        which will be used to bombard
        the gyrating masses...so don't
        be shy

            INTERNATIONAL PARTICIPATION ENCOURAGED

            EXTRA PLEASES FOR: ANIMATION and DIGITAL VID

        For more information about smartBOMB, send
        email to: Robert Stephens ([e-mail])

    ---------------------------------------------------------

        DON'T FORGET THE COLLABORATION PROJECT!

    ---------------        Yet another in an ongoing
     S Y N E R G Y        series of collaborative
       P A N I C        image projects for final
    ---------------        exhibition on the OTIS
    -----  !  -----        on-line gallery.

    SYNERGY:PANIC will be a real-time collaborative
    project taking place during smartBOMB's first
    media-exploitative music/dance events at the
    Rogue nightclub on January 28th and 29th 1994.
    PANIC will start at 10:30pm and go on into the
    wee hours.

    To participate, you must have a net-connection
    on that evening and be willing to be available
    between the hours of 10pm and 4am Central
    Standard Time (USA).

    Patrons of the Rogue club during smartBOMB 1.0
    will be having their pictures taken digitally
    and uploaded to the OTIS FTP site as quickly
    as possible (they will have Internet connections
    at the event).  These pictures will be uploaded
    to a special directory at OTIS and participating
    artists will download them, manipulate them,
    and upload the manipulated image as fast as
    they can (ideally within 10 minutes).

    The images, when returned, will be displayed on
    video walls and screens at the Rogue club....
    the cycle will be complete and people will see
    themselves through the eyes of mathematics and
    human-imagination.  Cyborg snapshots.

    Ideally, this will be entertaining for the
    image-manipulators as well as the patrons of
    the club.  Entertaining...and perhaps a bit
    frightening.

    This quick manipulation will test the skills of
    the participating artists under time restrictions.
    Panic induced creativity.

    Participants should probably have two terminals
    available to them during the event.  One to
    monitor the FTP directory and one to manipulate
    and transfer finished images.

    At any point, the participating artists may
    manipulate previously manipulated images...futhering
    the distortion, deepening the vision (or making it
    totally unrecogniseable).

    The end products of SYNERGY:PANIC will be
    placed into the OTIS directories soon following
    the event, for all to see.

    Each participating image-tweaker will be assigned
    and identification number to use when uploading
    their manipulations.  If you'd like to participate,
    you need to send email to reserve your ID to:

        [e-mail]
        SUBJECT: PANIC!

    Further information about the FTP directory and
    naming conventions will be sent along with the ID#.

    ***  Deadline for sign-up is January 28th at 6pm CST.  ***
    ***  All participants will receive a neat prize! (TBA) ***

    For more information on OTIS or SYNERGY, send electronic
    mail to: Ed Stastny ([e-mail])













+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 291   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 23:54:03 +0100
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: GIGA-MEM

Steve wrote :

> I've had pretty good luck using VMM40 (which is a freeware virtual
> memory program) with Imagine.  I've been able to render scenes taking
> about twice the amount of my free physical memory with no troubles.

I got it on aminet, but it won't work with my config. I own two hard
drives, and when I run VMEM, the second hard drive has recoverable
read/write errors... I told it to the author (no answer yet).
So be careful... or tell me how to use it !...

    Stanis


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 292   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 17:31:08 -0400 (EST)
From: ecorbin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: imagine pc requirements



On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Andrew McDonald wrote:

> Given Imagine/PC's inability to co-exist with anything but the bare bones
> system config, I'd suggest avoiding the DBLSPACE utility. There might be
> some command line jpeg compressors for DOS.

There are several.  djpeg/cjpeg, the generic all around jpeg software,
is available for about everything.  Look in the gfx (or is it graphics)
directory of your favorite simtel archive.

Earl Corbin
[e-mail]





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 293   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 02:04:55 +0200
From: CAN OZTURK <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: imagine pc requirements


Ed Totman writes:

>> Can I get an automatic file compression utility like PEGGER
>> the pc to save HD
> Yes, in fact DOS 6.2 has the utility...

Dos 6.2 has no built in utility like PEGGER. It just have a Stacker type
disk compression program called DoubleSpace. What it does is compress and
decompress files on the fly. What Pegger does is monitoring a specific
directory or disk for jpeg files and decompress them on the fly to iff24
format files. As you know jpeg is a very heavy compression format.
For example you can easily compress an image to 1:15 file size with
some compression losses. Generally a ratio like 1:5 is lossless.
Doublespace generally do what it says: just 1:2 compression.
Writing something like the PEGGER on the clones is much more difficult than
on the Amiga because of the single tasking nature of the MSDOS.


Regards,

Erdem Taylan


***********************************************************

Being with the Amiga for an hour is like a minute,
Being with Mac and theCclones for a minute is like an hour.
That's what relativity is!

***********************************************************


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 294   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 19:07:21 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: PEGGER/DBLSPACE

    Sure, Double space doubles your HD space like Stacker, but as has been
said previously, It's buggy- just like Stacker... It also only doubles your
HD space- JPEG files can take but a 10th of the original space, but you will
suffer some quality loss! There are some PD Double space like utils out for
the Amiga- but they are real spotty- Most use various comppression lib's
such as Powerpacker- but again I've experimented with one, it was a little
imperfect.

    Just my 2 cents

Bob O'Connell


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 295   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Tim Salazar <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 09:05:29 -0800
       "MORPHUS 2.0" (Jan 18,  9:00am)
Subject: Re: MORPHUS 2.0

Guido,

If you have been following the IML there is interest in doing the melt from
Terminator 2. The police officer morphing from the floor to an erect human.
Can Morphus do this now? Or will 2.0 do this?

Are there any examples on or you can place on the Aminet?

Thanks,
Tim Salazar  [e-mail]


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 296   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Scot Schneebeli)
Subject: Super Play
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 12:01:35 -0500 (EST)


I was recently told about a program which created a different form of
animation files which would include sound samples and control of their
playback at what frame, volume, etc. It also had the ability to set a
frame playback speed, so that you could speed sections up or slow them
down allowing complete control over playback.

It's supposed to be called 'Super Play' or S-Play. I was told it came
out of Italy and was programmed by a Javier Mauar (or some such spelling).
It's a commercial product.

Here's the kicker though, it will only run on accelerated Amigas. The
playback is suppsed to be very good. You want x-frames/sec that is what
you get, no slowdown for sections that have greater deltas. Animations
are larger of course (always a price to quality).

Does anyone know about this and where I can get it?

--
Scot Schneebeli                       <[e-mail]>



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 297   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:58:21 -0400 (AST)
From: the Shockwave Surfer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: imagine pc requirements



On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, Steve Koren wrote:

> But also, would pegger not have to be doing more than just "watching
> directories"?  That'd work for file writes - after you see an IFF
> written to disk, you could convert it to jpeg and store it back.  But
> what about the other direction (reads)?  I think for that, you would
> have to patch either the file open or read functions in dos.library on a
> system-wide basis.  Or maybe both.  That's the only way I can think of
> to fool the reading program into thinking it is getting an IFF instead
> of a jpeg.  Maybe someone who has pegger can comment about how it
> actually works?  (I mean, not what it does, but how it does it).  I am
> thinking that this would not be a hard program to write assuming you
> already had JPEG<->IFF functions.

I believe it DOES patch Open(), so that it can watch selected
directories. Does anyone have code to do this? You can't just use
SetFunction(), as dos.library is a non-standard library, and you have to
preserve the original vector. This is probably trivail in assembler, but
I program in C, and don't know EXACTLY what to write. Any one help out
here? E-mail me directly, so as not to bother IML readers with it.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 298   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
    id AA11745; Fri, 21 Jan 94 15:32:19 GMT
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 15:32:19 GMT
Subject: Re: T3DLIB R41 ReadWrite bug


Glenn> I have verified that the object-mangling bug only exists in the
Glenn> FPU version of readwrite, and not the 68000/NoFPU version...

    I have placed T3DLIB R42 on Aminet in /pub/aminet/gfx/3d
(ftp.wustl.edu or ftp.luth.se)... it should arrive there in a few
days.  Until then, it is in the "blind" location: /pub/aminet/new on
ftp.wustl.edu.

    No 020/FPU version is supplied, as there appears to be a SAS
6.50 compiler bug.  Stefan pointed out that the 6.51 patch is
available, so as soon as I verify that the patch fixes the problem,
I'll get out an 020/FPU version.  Turning off optimization did not
help, unfortunately.

                            -- Glenn



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 299   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 15:16:34 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: GIGA-MEM


> > I've had pretty good luck using VMM40 (which is a freeware virtual

> I got it on aminet, but it won't work with my config. I own two hard
> drives, and when I run VMEM, the second hard drive has recoverable
> read/write errors... I told it to the author (no answer yet).

I think this was a known problem with an early version.  The author has
since fixed it, I believe.  He is also in the middle of adding file
swap, so you don't have to repartition your drive(s).  (He claimed file
swap won't be any slower than partition swap, but I'm not quite buying
that claim until I see it myself :-) ).

Maybe if I get some free time (hah!) I'll run some performance tests by
doing Imagine renders using varying amounts of virtual mem and comparing
them to times using all real mem.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 300   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 21:58:53 -0500 (EST)
From: "JOSEPH F. HART" <[e-mail]>
Subject: multi-faceted unsmoothed transparent objects

     I have been experimenting with multi-faceted transparent objects.
I have been trying things like cut glass objects and gemstones.  I
have recently tried a diamond done in the standard faceting style
known to lapidaries as the "brilliant" cut.  I have carefully checked
all the facet planes and angles, and they are correct, as is the index
of refraction.  I am aware that Imagine cannot yet model the prismatic
or "rainbow" effect of a refractive object.

     I have noticed, however, that a transparent object with a refractive
index over about 1.5 and a large number of facets will turn very dark
when rendered.  Does anyone know why this happens, and what can be done
about it ?

Thanks...

___________________________________________________________________
                  |         Internet: [e-mail]
Joe Hart          |     ///    Plink: OSS542
Niagara Falls, NY | \\\///  Ham call: WA2SND
                  |  \XX/   AMIGA - Computers for REAL MEN
===================================================================


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 301   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Eric Kilkenny)
Subject: MacroMaker, JPEG and Other things
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 14:33:04 -0800 (PST)

    HI All..  I just got this Program that Many of You might
be interested in.  It's called "MacroMaker"  It's for making
Arexx Scripts for ADPro.  And in My Opinion It's Something that
should have been included with ADPro.  It works really Great.
ANd It's FREE!!  Some of you may have read about it in the New
VTU magazine for January,  thats the article that got me excited
about it.  One of my friends tried to find it on The internet
with No Luck,  Not that that Means much.  But anyway I highly
suggest getting this Program If your into making Arexx Scripts
for ADPro it just makes it really Fast And Easy.  It also seems
to work better than T-Rexx does.  I could Email the Program to
anyone who might want it,  Or you can Call the Number of the BBS
I uploaded it, which is listed Below.
    Another Program I found that many of you might also be
interested in is called ABC.  It's a batch Proccessor that could
take for Instance an Entire Drawer of Pictures and Such and
Convert them all to JPEG.  I could also Email this,  or you can
call the BBS below.  That is if it isn't on The Net somewhere.
    Well Thats about All I'v got to say for today...

    Later All!!

     - Eric Kilkenny





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 302   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Tyrone Marshall)
Subject: Re: Books etc.
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 20:50:42 EST

>
> >My first posting attempt......
> >
> >I'd like a decent book or two on Imagine 2, but can't find anything here in
> >England. Does anyone have a title I could try and ask for. The only ones I've
> >heard of, the bookstores cannot find on English or American catalogs. If you
> >could give me an ISBN number & publisher etc. that might help.
> >
> >Ta!
> >
> >( Hope this works.... )
> >
> >AJB
>         AJB, I'm sure the one that you will be referred to the most is
>
>                 Understanding Imagine 2.0 by Steven Worley
>                 Apex Software Publishing
>                 405 El Camino Real Suite 121
>                 Menlo Park, Ca 94025
>         Get a hold of this one and you'll be well on your way to uh....
> understanding Imagine 2.0.
>                                 later,
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> "Toasters don't burn toast. People burn toast."
>                         Curator Seattle Toaster Museum
>
> Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]
>
> 13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
> Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]
>
>

    Which is by the currently out of print, and no mail order
companies have anymore.

            Tyrone Marshall


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 303   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
Subject: PANIC!
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 20:06:31 -0600 (CST)

I have one question about the PANIC! thing...

Is there a utility for the Amiga that is shareware that will change
IFFANIM -> MPEG?  I don't want to have to try to convert things to my IBM
before sending them off... ;)
--
     Gordon Schumacher

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "I woke up on the wrong side of bed this   _@_      |
|     Urbana     morning... underneath it!"               /   \     |
|                    -Jason Freeburg                     | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 304   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 23:29:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Freundlich <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 1-plane black screen

>>I'd still have a white menu bar (I've got 3.0 and NewLook).
>Huh? What is this? NewLook?

It's nothing.  Or rather, it's the menu style that came with 3.0, ie black text
on white menubar.  I think if you program, there's also a NewLook flag you can
set for windows (screens?  I want 3.0 Autodocs!!!!!) to have the menus be this
way.



+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
|Rob Freundlich                         |#define SYSOP GOD                    |
|IDX Systems Corporation                |#define REALITY NULL                 |
|[e-mail]     <- You Are Here |                                     |
|[e-mail]                 |Diseased Programmers do it in MUMPS! |
+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
|     Amiga 4000/040/25MHz/10M/120M - No IBM clone even comes close!          |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  "Some folks you don't have to satirize, ya just quote 'em" - Tom Paxton    |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|#include <stdio.h> int main() {printf("My opinions not my IDX's");return(0);}|
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 305   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Ken Morton <[e-mail]>
Subject: tga to avi/mpeg?
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 02:09:22 -0500 (EST)


    Hi.  I just bought Imagine 2.9 for the PC.  It's pretty neat.  And
it renders *really* fast on my p5. :)

    Um, does anyone know of any msods/windows utilities that will let
me take Imagine's .tga output and create a .avi or .mpg file?


            Thanks

            Ken



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 306   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 23:34:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Collett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: How to build anims

> Another thing I have discovered: it is almost always better to have
> Imagine render to 24 bit, and down-convert to your favorite format after
> rendering.  You'll get much better results that way.  And last but not

Yep, I do the same.

> animations.  You'll be able to play back a whole lot faster.  I've also
> noticed there is a big difference in quality when doing 24 bit->HAM8
> conversions between a freeware tool such as VT or Rend24 and a good
> image processor such as ImageFX.  (Which is a little odd, since VT and
> ImageFX were written by the same guy :-) ).  I've found ImageFX to do a
> quite noticeably better job at this conversion than the freeware tools
> do, especially for pictures with a lot of fine detail.
>
>   - steve
>

The guy that wrote VT & ImageFX says that VT is primarly for quick and
dirty viewing and sedgests getting ImageFX for conversions.





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 307   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 23:25:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Collett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 1-plane black screen

>
> >One fast way I do it, is to change the workbench to 2 color, and put in
> >front.  Then open a shell and select it so as to turn off the mem free
> >status on the menu bar.  It works....
>
> This is fast?  I'd have to close all my non-drawer windows, open Prefs, open
> the ScreenMode Pref, change the depth, save it, then open a shell.  Even so,
> I'd still have a white menu bar (I've got 3.0 and NewLook).
>
> With my prog, I just click on its button in my ToolManager Dock and the screen
> goes black.
>
> Oh, and to all the folks who said "yes, I'll take a copy" - when I get my brain
> on straight and remember to xfer it, you'll get it :-)  If aminet is accepting
> new uploads by then, I'll post it there too.
>

I did'ent mean that it was the easyest way in the world, I've got a
script set up to copy a pre saved version of the screen.prefs to
env:sys.  I'd like to get your program if possible, It's just that some
of us are not programers.  But I do appricate programers who are willing
to share their programs with the rest of us.

Thanks,
  Ray Collett
  [e-mail]

> +---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
> |Rob Freundlich                         |#define SYSOP GOD                    |
> |IDX Systems Corporation                |#define REALITY NULL                 |
> |[e-mail]     <- You Are Here |                                     |
> |[e-mail]                 |Diseased Programmers do it in MUMPS! |
> +---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
> |     Amiga 4000/040/25MHz/10M/120M - No IBM clone even comes close!          |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> |  "Some folks you don't have to satirize, ya just quote 'em" - Tom Paxton    |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> |#include <stdio.h> int main() {printf("My opinions not my IDX's");return(0);}|
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 308   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 23:59:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Collett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MacroMaker, JPEG and Other things


On Sat, 22 Jan 1994, Eric Kilkenny wrote:

>     HI All..  I just got this Program that Many of You might
> be interested in.  It's called "MacroMaker"  It's for making
> Arexx Scripts for ADPro.  And in My Opinion It's Something that
> should have been included with ADPro.  It works really Great.
> ANd It's FREE!!  Some of you may have read about it in the New

I've had this program for at least 2 years.  I've sense quit using it and
switched to T-Rexx because the MacroMaker I have dose not have ADPro 2.x
features in it.  If this is an update, or you know who the author is and
an address where he can be reached, I'd much appricate it.  I always did
like the program....

>
>     Later All!!
>
>      - Eric Kilkenny
>
>
>
>


Ray Collett
[e-mail]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 309   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 17:00:00 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Saffold)
Subject: Re: PEGGER/DBLSPACE



Uucp>         Sure, Double space doubles your HD space like Stacker, but as
Uucp> has been
Uucp> said previously, It's buggy- just like Stacker... It also only doubles
Uucp> your
Uucp> HD space- JPEG files can take but a 10th of the original space, but
Uucp> you will
Uucp> suffer some quality loss! There are some PD Double space like utils
Uucp> out for
Uucp> the Amiga- but they are real spotty- Most use various comppression
Uucp> lib's
Uucp> such as Powerpacker- but again I've experimented with one, it was a
Uucp> little
Uucp> imperfect.

Well, I've used the XPK software, and hae yet to have a problem with
it.  It has worked flawlessly, for several months of continual usage.

 * Q-Blue 1.0* ...Friction is a drag.
--
*******************************************************************
*  Cuerna Verde BBS FidoNet Gateway  *  Data/Fax: [phone]  *
*  Pueblo, Colorado USA              *  FidoNet:  1:307/18        *
*******************************************************************


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 310   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 9:01:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Freundlich <[e-mail]>
Subject: BlackScreen.lha on aminet

I've uploaded my BlackScreen.lha to aminet.  It's in the /new directory for
now, and should move elsewhere within a couple of days.  Enjoy.

+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
|Rob Freundlich                         |#define SYSOP GOD                    |
|IDX Systems Corporation                |#define REALITY NULL                 |
|[e-mail]     <- You Are Here |                                     |
|[e-mail]                 |Diseased Programmers do it in MUMPS! |
+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
|     Amiga 4000/040/25MHz/10M/120M - No IBM clone even comes close!          |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  "Some folks you don't have to satirize, ya just quote 'em" - Tom Paxton    |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|#include <stdio.h> int main() {printf("My opinions not my IDX's");return(0);}|
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 311   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 14:16:14 MET
Organisation: PKS, Amiga Consultancy & Custom programming.
From: [e-mail] (Paul Kolenbrander)
Subject: Re: Building animations...

Hello Steve Koren,On 20 JAN 1994 19:42:14 you said regarding Building animations...:

> > And since ADPro is probably the best image processing package around,
> Nah.  ImageFX = ADPro on steroids :-)

Hmm, but steroids are bad for you. They can make you impotent and
kill you liver... :-) Better stay away from them.

But maybe I'll get ImageFX if GVP comes out with an EGS version.

-- __
--/_/  |/ ------------+-UseNet / : [e-mail]--
-/aul  |\olenbrander--+-InterNet : [e-mail]----
----------------------+--------------------------------------
-Reg. Amiga&CD32 Dev.-+-A4000/040&A3000. Best Of Both Worlds-


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 312   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
Subject: Attributes
Date:     Sun, 23 Jan 1994 13:25:57 -0500


A while ago, someone ULed a 3 files of attributes to wuarchive, called
ATTS1.lha,2&3.  When I checked there, I could not find them.  This was
after their system went down.  Anyone know where they are?

Jason K.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 313   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 13:38:16 -0500 (EST)
From: "JOSEPH F. HART" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: multi-faceted unsmoothed transparent objects

>From: IN%"[e-mail]" 22-JAN-1994 05:09:07.68

> Hmmm.....is it perhaps refracting the background color?  Try changing the
> background color to see if thats it.

This is an interesting idea.  The stone is enclosed in a cubical room with
textured walls and is well lit, so this did not appear to be a problem.
I did try changing the colors, including removing the textures and
making all six panels pure white, and the stone was still dark.

> You may also try placing an axis in the middle of the diamond
> and making it a spherical light source.

This is also a very interesting idea.  The room was much brighter,
but the stone was unaffected.

> From:    IN%"[e-mail]"  "Mike Halvorson" 22-JAN-1994

>     The problem is this, you are probably making a stone that has only
> an outside, when in truth  a stone would have both an OUTSIDE as well as
> mass inside, to simulate this you must make an inside to the object.  Copy
> it, scale it to be slightly smaller than the main object and then join
> them,  In this way the light will pass into the object and then properly
> out of the object this will make the refraction and reflection work
> properly.  HOpe this helps.

     Your suggestion is much appreciated, Mike, and may the gods
adore you for answering, and for making a neat modeler.  I've learned a
great many neat modeling tricks by attempting this project.  It's
cost me many an evening and weekend, and it's all your fault.........;-)

     Anyway, I tried your suggestion on the stone.  It was greatly
clarified, though still slightly dark.  I did notice that the stone
no longer had any significant refraction.  I suspect that the
refraction was reversed by the extra set of internal faces.  I tried
the same thing with a transparent ball, using the faceted primitive
sphere.  Interestingly enough, the darkness difficulty does not
occur with such spheres.  I first used a solid sphere without the
extra set of internal faces, like the stone I started with.  I noticed
that the refraction was as I would have expected for something like
a crystal ball.  I then added the extra set of faces to the sphere.
The refraction was almost entirely eliminated, just as in the stone
with the extra set of internal faces.

> From:    IN%"[e-mail]"  "J_GEORGE" 22-JAN-1994 22:27:26.70

> Next you'll want to concentrate on the lighting of your scene. If
> you're expecting shine and sparkle from one or two lights, you'll
> probably need to go for more than that (at least with Imagine).
> Set up your overall lighting of the scene and try spotlights trained
> on the object(s) from different off-camera angles.

     I tried adding extra lights at many different positions and angles.
The scene was greatly brightened, but the stone itself was almost
totally unaffected.

> One last thing to consider (and I haven't tried this yet) is to
> break the object up into 2 or more sections and group them around
> a central axis. With this, your object will no longer be a 'solid'
> object, but two 'shells' grouped close together. That way you won't
> have to deal with the prism effects, but it may open up a new set of
> problems if you've got alot of overlapping transparent sections.

     A fascinating idea.  It had never occurred to me.  I tried
this by dividing the stone up into four solid sections, positioned
symetrically about a central axis and grouped to it.  In the detail
editor, the stone appears exactly the same as before, as one might
expect, except that it is four grouped objects instead of a single
one.  I then rendered the scene with the grouped stone.  The opaque
areas are rearranged, but the transparency appears otherwise
unaffected.

___________________________________________________________________
                  |         Internet: [e-mail]
Joe Hart          |     ///    Plink: OSS542
Niagara Falls, NY | \\\///  Ham call: WA2SND
                  |  \XX/   AMIGA - Computers for REAL MEN
===================================================================


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 314   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Attributes
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 14:01:41 -0600 (CST)

> A while ago, someone ULed a 3 files of attributes to wuarchive, called
> ATTS1.lha,2&3.  When I checked there, I could not find them.  This was
> after their system went down.  Anyone know where they are?

I looked on wuarchive after they went down, and I could not find *any* of
the recently uploaded files.  Did they lose them all?
--
     Gordon Schumacher

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "I woke up on the wrong side of bed this   _@_      |
|     Urbana     morning... underneath it!"               /   \     |
|                    -Jason Freeburg                     | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 315   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 14:28:58 -0600 (CST)
From: Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: tga to avi/mpeg?

On Sun, 23 Jan 1994, Ken Morton wrote:

>     Um, does anyone know of any msods/windows utilities that will let
> me take Imagine's .tga output and create a .avi or .mpg file?

I use DTA (Dave's Targa Animator).  This takes a series of TGA's and
creates a FLC or FLI.  Recent versions have included AVI formats.  I
believe that there is a big revision of it on the horizon, but the latest
I know of is DTA207.ZIP.

   _________________________________  <<-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-<<
  0______________________________   |  >>  Escher Rules!                >>
   _____________________________/|  | <<   Cliff Lee                   <<
  0_____________________________l|  |  >>  [e-mail]   >>
   _________________________________| <<   [e-mail]               <<
  0________________________________/   >>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-->>




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 316   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 15:35:20 -0400 (EST)
From: ecorbin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: imagine pc requirements



On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, the Shockwave Surfer wrote:

> preserve the original vector. This is probably trivail in assembler, but
> I program in C, and don't know EXACTLY what to write. Any one help out
> here? E-mail me directly, so as not to bother IML readers with it.

Please Cc: this to me, also.  I program in C, and I'm trying to learn
Amiga programming.  Knowing this would make it relatively easy to write
a PD Pegger-type utility, since the JPEG algorithms are PD, and you can
get source code for djpeg/cjpeg.

Earl Corbin
[e-mail]





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 317   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
Subject: ParNet
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 16:29:37 -0600 (CST)

I know somebody out there said that they use ParNet to connect an Amiga
and an IBM.  Can someone give me some help with this?  Thanx...
--
     Gordon Schumacher

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "I woke up on the wrong side of bed this   _@_      |
|     Urbana     morning... underneath it!"               /   \     |
|                    -Jason Freeburg                     | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 318   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Scott Lundholm <[e-mail]>
Subject: atts-1.lha & 2,3 re-uploaded
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 14:36:11 PST

Hi All,

     I have re-uploaded the files atts-1.lha, atts-2.lha and atts-3.lha to
wuarchive.wustl.edu. They are currently in the systems/amiga/aminet/new
directory, Im sure that eventually they will move, but I don't know where to.
These files were sent to my by Soren Wind (If I remeber the name correctly,
sorry if I have it wrong, but names were always my downfall) for uploading to
aminet. Some of the files require Essence I and/or II, and I think some may
even require V2.9. Anyway, Thanks Soren, and keep rendering.

                                                    Scott Lundholm

 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | Amiga 500/030 at 38Mhz w/68882 at |    Email [e-mail]    |
 | 50Mhz, 8Meg of 32-bit RAM, Bodega |                 Memeber                |
 | Bay w/105M,450M, & 1G Hard Drives,|    Redwood Empire Amiga Users Group    |
 | HP PaintJet, 16" HP Programmable  |      3D Rendering Enthusiast and       |
 | Multisynch w/Flicker Free Video.  |  graphics fanatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  |
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 319   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: PANIC!
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 02:18:24 -0600 (CST)

> > Is there a utility for the Amiga that is shareware that will change
> > IFFANIM -> MPEG?  I don't want to have to try to convert things to my IBM
> > before sending them off... ;)
>
> I too am searching for info on this...I have heard some say ImageFX (I
> think) has the ability to assemble a FLI/FLC file.  Lemme know what you can
> about this, and the Panic! project...it sounds like fun!

If there is a way, I believe it must be through an external plug-in... or
else I just can't find it.  I can assemble straight IFF ANIMs, but I can't
find a way to do anything else...
--
     Gordon Schumacher

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "I woke up on the wrong side of bed this   _@_      |
|     Urbana     morning... underneath it!"               /   \     |
|                    -Jason Freeburg                     | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 320   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Mike McCool)
Subject:  A little gap, there?
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 19:57:25 -0800 (PST)

Hey Imaggots,
    Anyone else experience an e-mail lag last week?  I posted
to the list twice, and only one showed up.
    I have a question for the person who was repeatedly nice
enough to upload that oversize screen hack.  What am I doing wrong?
Thanks to you, I found that nice hex editor and carefully hex'd
my versions of Imagine.  I even changed the screen mode settings
on my workbench to display a 700 X 462 screen.
    But Imagine will still not display a whole pic for me
rendered in such a format.  It's like it's refusing to lace it,
or something.  All the data's there, but it's off the screen.
Obviously I'm not doing something right.
    Thanks, all.  And nice to hear from everyone again.

    John Michael McCool

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
) Zebulon Pike Z-Squirrel with Dual Airbags and Zag Cruise HD (
) 2.9 Terrabite Liquid Medium Memory Unit   FlickerLicker     (
) Monsanto Mnemonic Mammary Matrix with Auto-Eroginating Blip (
) Node Seven with Extra Crispy Chips  Three Stuffed Llamas    (
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 321   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 07:53:59 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: note on Vertex 2.0


I got this last week and haven't had a lot of time to play with it yet,
but here are my (brief) impressions so far:

  * I don't think you can replace the detail editor with it, but it is
    very useful to *augment* the detail editor.  It does some things
    very well the detail editor doesn't do, and vice versa.
    Specifically, I think the detail editor is better and more logical
    at manipulating complex object hierarchies.  On the other hand,
    Vertex can do some thing which are very hard in the detail editor,
    such as decent beveling, or polygon filling.

  * The trees in Vertex are probably worth the entire price of the
    package (that is, if you need trees).  A decent looking tree seems
    to have about 3000 to 6000 polygons.  You get to save files of tree
    parameters - there are 12 or 16 or so which you can tinker with.
    Very nice.  Results are great (depending on your parameters of
    course).  The only thing I don't like: if you add leaves, they don't
    look very good.  That is because it uses simple triangles to try to
    save on the polygon count (which would otherwise get big *fast*).
    Anyway you can waste a lot of time just playing with the trees in
    Vertex :-)

  * Also, if you draw a shape in the detail editor and want to fill it
    with polygons, its hard.  Simple shapes you can do by hand.  For
    complex shapes there are some techniques (extrude & cut a plane,
    etc), but none of them work well and they are all cumbersome and
    inefficient.  With Vertex, this is *incredibly* easy.  You can draw
    any old closed shape (even one with holes), and hit a hotkey, and
    *wham*, your shape is polygon filled.  Blew me away.  It think this
    could save a whole lot of time when modeling complex things in the
    detail editor.  I wish I'd had this for some past projects...

  * Since Vertex is a "generic" modeler (also write Lightwave, etc.), it
    doesn't support all Imagine attributes very well (such as textures).
    Its probably best to do the basic model in Vertex for things it is
    best at, then import to the Detail editor to assign textures and
    brushmaps.

  * Its got ARexx, so you can write your own manipulation macros.  This
    should be great.  There is a supplied one for beveling and another
    supplied one for making a cube with rounded corners (nice effect).
    I could see some significant uses for this.  You can even assign
    keys in Vertex to your own macros (or other basic ops).

  * Had a few problems: its opening its "preview" screens in some funky
    manner which doesn't work with mode promotion (although the program
    itself can be mode promoted to any resolution and works great).
    Also, I had one crash when I tried to load an object too big for the
    memory it had allocated.  (It uses a static memory model, not
    dynamic).

  * Its got some nice features: for example, you can type a formula (5
    + 5/8) into most numeric entry fields.  Lots of others things too.

My general impression: If you do a lot of modeling of complex objects in
Imagine, this is a very useful tool to do some things which are hard in
the detail editor.  On the other hand, if you want to use it to the
exclusion of the detail editor you're going to have problems.  I think
I'll use it mostly for the trees, for the polygon-fill, and performing
custom operations from ARexx.  Then I'll assemble the created objects in
the detail editor and assign attributes.  Good combo, IMHO.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 322   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 07:14:37 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: PEGGER/DBLSPACE


[e-mail] (Jeff Saffold) wrote:

> Well, I've used the XPK software, and hae yet to have a problem with
> it.  It has worked flawlessly, for several months of continual usage.

Ditto for me.  Except, I dunno, maybe a year of use so far?  XPK is very
well done anyway.

I think I'm going to write to Urban and suggest a JPEG module for XPK :-).
Who knows, maybe he'll find somebody to write one.  XPK is the perfect
solution for that.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 323   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 07:06:07 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: more notes on compression of Imagine stuff


Hello,

There was a brief discussion a while ago on things like Doublespace,
XPK, and Pegger to compress Imagine output.  I tried a few quick
experiments this weekend, to see what compressed well in my Imagine tree
and what didn't.  Here's what happened.

All experiments were done with XPK, using various compression methods.
Interestingly enough, the things that compressed *very* well were the
IFF Imagine objects themselves.  I got results like this (for a
Battleship object I had laying around):

   object size   file compression ratio  compression method
     995 Kb           65%                   RDCN
     995 Kb           77%                   NUKE
     995 Kb           82%                   SHRI

But SHRI is so slow its not worth the extra few percent.  Most large
objects compressed between 68% and 82% with NUKE.  Small objects varied
a lot more, but were rarely less than 50%.  Anyway, high-70's
compression ratios are very useful when you have megabyte+ sized object
files laying around.  I gather this will also be representative of the
compression ratios achieved by Stacker or DoubleSpace.

The IFF24 output frames from Imagine, on the other hand, hardly
compressed at all with any of the XPK pack methods.  I usually got
around 2% improvement.  Certainly the output images are quite redundant,
but just not in a manner compressible by generic "lzh" style algorithms.

This led to an idea: it seems to me you could easily make a XPK library
for JPEG compression.  It would look at the data, and leave all
non-image data alone, while changing the image data to jpeg.  You could
even compress saved GIF images that way :-).  I think this is
architecturally much cleaner than using something like Pegger, and you
don't have to worry about the rest of the framework (patching into
open/read, etc) because XFH handles it for you.  I suppose you could
even run both compression algorithms over the top of each other, to use
JPEG to compress your pictures and NUKE or RDCN for everything else.

Anybody wanna volunteer to write one? :-)

  - steve

PS - I didn't even try compressing attribute files.  They're too small
to matter anyway.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 324   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Daniel Jr Murrell <[e-mail]>
       id JAA06678; Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:59:30 -0600
Subject: Re: PANIC!
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:59:29 -0600 (CST)

> > I too am searching for info on this...I have heard some say ImageFX (I
> > think) has the ability to assemble a FLI/FLC file.  Lemme know what you can
> > about this, and the Panic! project...it sounds like fun!
>
> If there is a way, I believe it must be through an external plug-in... or
> else I just can't find it.  I can assemble straight IFF ANIMs, but I can't
> find a way to do anything else...
> --
>      Gordon Schumacher

I just got Imagemaster R/T, and under the multi-frame options/Set
Scripts, there is a button called FLIck Writer.  There is also a FLI
reader in there as well.  I haven't tried it yet, so I can't tell you how
it works.

Dan



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 325   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 10:58:09 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Re: multi-faceted unsmoothed transparent objects


>      I have been experimenting with multi-faceted transparent objects.
> I have been trying things like cut glass objects and gemstones.  I
> have recently tried a diamond done in the standard faceting style
> known to lapidaries as the "brilliant" cut.  I have carefully checked
> all the facet planes and angles, and they are correct, as is the index
> of refraction.  I am aware that Imagine cannot yet model the prismatic
> or "rainbow" effect of a refractive object.
>
>      I have noticed, however, that a transparent object with a refractive
> index over about 1.5 and a large number of facets will turn very dark
> when rendered.  Does anyone know why this happens, and what can be done
> about it ?
>
> Thanks...
>

Have you tried turning up the number of reflections allowed(in configuration,
recursion depth or something like that)  What makes diamonds sparkle is the
internal reflections, and if you aren't allowing enough 'bounces' then the
light won't make it back out.

Does Imagine allow for internal reflections?  I can't recall, but I *think*
I remember reading somewhere that it does not(Don't flame me if I'm wrong,
just tell me and I'll go home and try it for myself:)).

If Imagine *doesn't* handle internal reflections, than that may explain why
your diamond is so dark(depending on how it does handle light hitting at an
angle that would cause it to reflect(or refract so much as to reflect)).
We went over this in class but its a little fuzzy and I don't know how Imagine
implements this stuff, so....take it with a grain of salt.

Mike, about your suggestion to put a smaller version inside...What does that
do to the model of a diamond.  Ie, how does the light reflect, refract, etc
when going from one medium to the same medium(What does this do to our model)?


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 326   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 11:18:28 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

>      I have noticed, however, that a transparent object with a refractive
> index over about 1.5 and a large number of facets will turn very dark
> when rendered.  Does anyone know why this happens, and what can be done
> about it ?

Sounds like total internal reflection. This is a common real world phenomenon
that occurs with refractive objects. With the right combination of angles
and refractive indices, a situation can occur where light entering the
medium gets refracted to an extreme enough angle that it cannot pass back
out (and just sort of bounces around inside :-)
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 327   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
Subject: atts-1.lha ??
Date:     Mon, 24 Jan 1994 12:42:08 -0500


I checked wuarchive again.  The files weren't in the new dir under aminet and
I couldn't find them listed under the recent or index files.  Was a readme
included when they were ULed?  If not, the files usually get deleted.

Jason K.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 328   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Greg Pringle)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 21:59:22 -0700
Subject: Re: tga to avi/mpeg?

In <[e-mail]> Ken Morton <[e-mail]> writes:
>    Hi.  I just bought Imagine 2.9 for the PC.  It's pretty neat.  And
>it renders *really* fast on my p5. :)
>
>    Um, does anyone know of any msods/windows utilities that will let
>me take Imagine's .tga output and create a .avi or .mpg file?

    Check out the buzz.mpg and buzz.readme files in the imagine
archive (/systems/amiga/boing/incoming/imagine on wuarchive.wustl.edu).
The readme gives step by step instructions.

  Greg

--
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Greg Pringle                 | Amiga VBBS - Multitasking, Windowed   |
| [e-mail]     |                BBS'ing!               |
| [e-mail]     | VBBS 14.4K: [phone] & 284-5625 |
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------+


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 329   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 10:59:12 PDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: tga to avi/mpeg?


From: Ken Morton <[e-mail]>
Subject: tga to avi/mpeg?

 Hi.  I just bought Imagine 2.9 for the PC.  It's pretty neat.  And
it renders *really* fast on my p5. :)

 Um, does anyone know of any msods/windows utilities that will let
me take Imagine's .tga output and create a .avi or .mpg file?


   Thanks

   Ken

-------------------------------------

Adobe Premiere for Windows can make an avi file from a sequence
of tiffs. This is what I use for final form for my Imagine
animations. Use whatever codecs you have. Extra cool if you
have a hardware motion jpeg board.


                        Marshall

Disclaimer: I work for Adobe, but this is not an official communication
of the company, just my two cents' worth.





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 330   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Mike McCool)
Subject: Re: multi-faceted unsmoothed transparent objects
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 11:36:59 -0800 (PST)

Hey guys,

    A good one to get into this discussion would be Steve
Siolkowski, of Rhythm and Hues.  They did a fabulous diamond
for someone's commercial.  It's remarkably sparkly.
    Are you there, Steve?
    (These guys are in Hollywood, and I haven't heard from him
since the big shakeup last week.  I posted him, but it
corresponded with that period when there seemed to be a lapse--at
least on my end--in email from the Net.)




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 331   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 14:19:18 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Paul Wehner)
Subject: Freeform3D_1a.lha

Just grabbed this program from Aminet gfx/3d... WOW! Looks very impressive.
And the author isn't kidding about speed either. Its a demo version of a new
modeller that saves Imagine, Real3D and Lightwave. B-spline etc. Save
disabled, hes asking a measly 70 bucks for a registered version. The interface
is very nice too. This seems much more usable than Icoons...


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 332   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 13:57:10 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)
Subject: Re: PANIC!

>> > I too am searching for info on this...I have heard some say ImageFX (I
>> > think) has the ability to assemble a FLI/FLC file.  Lemme know what you can
>> > about this, and the Panic! project...it sounds like fun!
>>
>> If there is a way, I believe it must be through an external plug-in... or
>> else I just can't find it.  I can assemble straight IFF ANIMs, but I can't
>> find a way to do anything else...
>> --
>>      Gordon Schumacher
>
>I just got Imagemaster R/T, and under the multi-frame options/Set
>Scripts, there is a button called FLIck Writer.  There is also a FLI
>reader in there as well.  I haven't tried it yet, so I can't tell you how
>it works.
>
>Dan

I just tried MainActor and does fli flc conversion but I have not tested it
but you might give it a try. I am thinking about it as a purchase but I am
leaning to imageFX on my next investment, it would seem redundant to have both.
I like MainActor because I can Manipulate the graphics data base so I can get
an ntsc output from a 640X400 image I was having a lot of trouble with only
showing half or 1/4 screen using imagine or viewTek when I used the composite
out to video tape. (by the way I am getting better at this, everyone at work
likes my stuff so much they are picking frames they like and converting
them to bumps for their windows backdrops.I have sure heard a lot of oohs
and awes lately.)


                                        Render Ho!
                                          Lesk




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 333   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Greebo <[e-mail]83u>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 16:39:37 +0000 (WET)
X-Organisation: Staffs University Funny Farm (School of Computing)
Original-Sender: [e-mail]
Finger: cm3bcjh2@[e-mail]

Hi there!  Hope some-one can help...

In the action editor (I think that'ss where it is) of Imagine 2.0, how
do you change the direction of a non-spherical light source?  (ie
Conical or tubular)...

And:  What techniques are required to view 3D stereo images rendered by
the generator in the project editor?

(One more!):  How much is Imagine PC?  I have a friend with a 486DX-33
who's seen the Amiga version running on an accelerated (50Mhz-ish) 1200
with 6 Mb RAM...


Many thanks!

John


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* John Hawksley     * "Do the Americans Realise that  *  Internal: CM3BCJH2   *
* 13C Brooke Court  *  the security of  their nation  *        BS88::SUAMGR   *
* Milton Grove      *  is in the  hands  of the same  *                       *
* Highfields        *  people  who  designed the ADA  * (It all goes into the *
* Stafford          *  Language?"                     *  same mailbox anyhow) *
*                   *                                 *                       *
* [phone] *      [e-mail]      *  S.U. VTX BBS Editor  *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*     To Err is Human -- To Really Foul Things Up Requires A VAX Cluster      *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 334   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (bob chadwick)
Subject: Re: ParNet
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 14:05:02 CST


ParNet and IBM...

>I know somebody out there said that they use ParNet to connect an Amiga
>and an IBM.  Can someone give me some help with this?  Thanx...

I'm sorry to say that but I really don't think that anybody will ever use
ParNet on an IBM, since ParNet is a system designed and programmed to fit
seamlessly into the Amiga OS, like devices, assigns, etc.
There's nothing like this exists on the PC...
But there is a solution, which is not as powerful as ParNet, but it works
for
file copying / moving stuff. The name of the package is TWIN, it includes
an
Amiga executable and an MSDOS EXE file. I used it one time, it worked. I
dunno if it's on Aminet or not.
Or you can use a comm. program with a null modem cable...

                                        Greg Kovacs
                     [e-mail]

PS.: We developed a long time ago a file sender/receiver system on the
Amiga,
especially for our needs in the animation business, (e.g. moving huge files
between two workstations) it does a realime compression (030 or 040) and
high
speed sending on the parallel port. We might port it later to the PC...



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 335   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Lens flare object
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 13:36:00 PST


Hello Imaginutions,
   The lens flare "discussions" seem to have died down a lot.  FYI, check
out Amazing Amiga magazine on the newstands now.  It has a very detailed
article on creating your own lens flare grouped object for Imagine 2.0
(works for 2.9, too).  The article is pretty extensive but it does leave out
a couple of things, the main one is that the described lens flare object
only works completely in Trace mode.  The article assumes you have a good
working knowledge of Imagine.  The lens flare is also basically a white
light effect, no interference or refraction coloring.  It can probably be
tweaked to filter for other colors.   The article is 2.0 specific so there
is no reference to the 2.9 lens flare texture.  I am going to play around
with applying the 2.9 lens flare texture on this object and see what
happens. Anyway, I thought the effect was pretty darned good and seems to
compare favorabley with the pictures made by Alladin 4D in their
advertisements.  If anybody is interested, I could try to send them the
object or maybe try to upload it and a test render to wuarchive/amiga-boing
( I say "try" because I have not been able to confirm if my file attachments
are automatically being uuencoded on the way out and I haven't tried
uploading anything to amiga-boing, and to top it off, wuarchive is down a
lot or there are too many users when I try to get on).


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 336   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 18:52:59 -0400 (EST)
From: ecorbin <[e-mail]>
Subject: FPU over CPU

Greetings,

I've been wondering for a while...

If one has a stock 1200 and adds a 50mhz '882 with fast ram, how would
this system render compared to a 1200 with an '030 and 25mhz '882 added
on?  In other words, which is more important to render speed?  I realize
over all system performance would get a boost from an '030, but how
about just rendering?

Earl C.
[e-mail]





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 337   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 16:09:16 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)
Subject: Testing?


This is a test.  Since the earthquake, I've tried several times to mail
    people.  Mike, I did respond, but all four times it came back
    saying the address was there but no information.
As far as the Imagine Diamond is concerned, due to a pesky little bug
    you can't render transparent over transparent, which means that
    even if it's part of the same object two transparent objects
    cancel each other out.  I haven't been able to figure out a
    workaround for this.
The diamond Mike is referring to was for Tiffany & Co, where we
    had an eclipse turn into a diamond ring.  The diamond was accomplished
    by several processes.  The diamond was modeled based on a
    diamond cutting manual.  There were several objects inside to
    help with the refraction, and for the sparklies, there was a
    duplicate diamond that only rendered specular highlights.  When
    this was comped over the fully rendered diamond, voila, a
    sparkly photo real diamond ring.  It was all scanline, by the way.
    We rarely raytrace at all because you have more control
    with layers.

steveZ                 Rhythm & Hues, Inc.
celia![e-mail]
"That's not Art Linkletter, that's Mickey Mouse!"
            -Art Linkletter, Disneyland opening day



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 338   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Mike McCool)
Subject: Re: Lens flare object
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 19:35:18 -0800 (PST)

Hey guys and gayas,
    I know I'm blaspheming to bring MAC's into this
discussion, since we're all pretty much in agreement that they're
over-priced and under-performing slow-mo machines with lots of
cutesy icons--but hey:  find a friend who has a MAC and who was
extravagantly stupid enough to purchase PhotoShop.
    CrossDos a floppy to the IBM format, and copy to it one
of your favorite Imagine pics, then take it over to your pitiable
Mac mate and have him load it in as an iff to PhotoShop.  Mac's
too stupid to read an amiga formatted disk, so it's gotta be an
msdos floppy.
    Go in through that maze of cutesy windows to the
Lensflare option, and pop one onto your pic.
    Frankly, it's the coolest lensflare I've ever seen,
including LightWave/Rave.  You get multiple optical piece
reflections, as well as cool spectral refractions and rays, all
of which you have control of.
    Excuse me now.  I have to go do pennance for my awful
sacrilege.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 339   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
Subject: QuickTrans
Date:     Tue, 25 Jan 1994 00:21:58 -0500


QuickTrans is set of libs to replace some of the math libs.  It supposedly
increases performance of various functions.  Has anyone tried this with
Imagine?  If so, is there an improvement in rendering times?

Jason K.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 340   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 22:00:25 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Daniel T. Edwards)
Subject: Re:  A little gap, there?

Mike McCool writes about problems with screen size hack...

James Walker responds:
I'm not sure what part it is not displaying for you.  When I Quickrender,
Imagine opens up the proper size screen and displays my image.  I have very
silght problems with the PLAY BIG function in the stage editor, but other
than that, Imagine performs flawlessly (as ever?).  Anyway, I use a 24bit
to PCHG converter program to view all my Imagine images, so Imagine's
display is not much concern to me.  If you are not using Imagine in
LACE mode, that <might> be it.  I can't think of anything else though.
 ____________________________________________________________
/                                                            \
| Amiga 2000                James R. Walker                  |
| 2MB Chip             [e-mail]            |
| 18MB Fast    ______________________________________________|
| 130 MB Hard /                                              |
| 68040 33Mhz |Heinlein,Rand,Clarke,Adams,Asimov,Niven,Worley|
\____________________________________________________________/


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 341   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 00:02:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Collett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Lens flare object
        [e-mail]


On Mon, 24 Jan 1994, Mike McCool wrote:

> Hey guys and gayas,
----stuff nuked
>     Go in through that maze of cutesy windows to the
> Lensflare option, and pop one onto your pic.
>     Frankly, it's the coolest lensflare I've ever seen,
> including LightWave/Rave.  You get multiple optical piece
> reflections, as well as cool spectral refractions and rays, all
> of which you have control of.

I'll have to get the latest ver of photo shop and fire up A-Max.  Screw
the real mac, fake it!

>     Excuse me now.  I have to go do pennance for my awful
> sacrilege.
>

(imagine a Gregorain Chant...)
y



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 342   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 02:35:09 -0600
From: William E Costello/Focal Point Software <[e-mail]>
Subject: Imagine 2.9 -> Spectrum



Does anybody know if Imagine works with GVP's Spectrum board?

Also, if it's not to much to ask, has anyone compared the retina
to the spectrum?  any insight on which is better?

thanks in advance.

bill.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 343   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 03:12:51 PST
From: 25-Jan-1994 0603 <[e-mail]>
Subject: re lens flair objects


>cutesy icons--but hey:  find a friend who has a MAC and who was
>extravagantly stupid enough to purchase PhotoShop.
    Actually PhotoShop is the onr reason I'd use a Mac !

>    CrossDos a floppy to the IBM format, and copy to it one
>of your favorite Imagine pics, then take it over to your pitiable
>Mac mate and have him load it in as an iff to PhotoShop.  Mac's
>too stupid to read an amiga formatted disk, so it's gotta be an
>msdos floppy.
    I just transferred MacToDos and an 800k mac floppy to a Friend.
    This was done after I had my 4000 to do HD IBM formatted floppies.
    I am not sure Mac's can read the 720k Dos disks.

>    Excuse me now.  I have to go do pennance for my awful
>    sacrilege.

    Well while your at it pray that they port PhotoShop, at a reasonable
    price ti the Amiga !

                                bill
/* all these ramblings do not reflect the opinions of my employer
William G. Leimberger Nashua New Hampshire
                                    */




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 344   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 20:06:02 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Saffold)
Subject: Attributes


Awhile back, someone uploaded 3 archives of textures, and I was
wondering if someone could re-upload them?  Wuarchive apparently
crashed and lost some stuff..
Thanks!

 * Q-Blue 1.0* ...He who hesitates looses the parking spot.
--
*******************************************************************
*  Cuerna Verde BBS FidoNet Gateway  *  Data/Fax: [phone]  *
*  Pueblo, Colorado USA              *  FidoNet:  1:307/18        *
*******************************************************************


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 345   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Ken Morton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Lens flare object
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 07:36:38 -0500 (EST)

>
> Hey guys and gayas,
>     I know I'm blaspheming to bring MAC's into this
> discussion, since we're all pretty much in agreement that they're
> over-priced and under-performing slow-mo machines with lots of
> cutesy icons--but hey:  find a friend who has a MAC and who was
> extravagantly stupid enough to purchase PhotoShop.

    I have a Mac.  The above statements are no longer true (uh-oh) but
I bought mine when they where, so I don't mind much. :)

    I don't think you can touch the mac for image manipulation.
Things like Photoshop (with Kai's Power Tools), CoSA After Effects,
VideoFusion, etc will let you do anything to an image or an animation.

    Of course, I bought a p5 for rendering. :)

            Ken

>     Excuse me now.  I
have to go do pennance for my awful > sacrilege.
>
>
>



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 346   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Alex... <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Imagine 2.9 -> Spectrum
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 12:56:25 +0000 (GMT)

> Does anybody know if Imagine works with GVP's Spectrum board?

    Sorry, can't help you there...

> Also, if it's not to much to ask, has anyone compared the retina
> to the spectrum?  any insight on which is better?

    Well, I can't speak for the Spectrum, but I have been using
    Imagine with a Retina for about 9 months now and it works
    really well with it.  You won't believe what it's like modeling
    on a 1024x768 non-interlaced screen +Bo)

    There are really only two problems I've had using the two
    together, and both are really just minor ones.

    1) The Retina doesn't properly display preview anims in the
       stage editor (cos' Imagine does these by writing directly
       to the Amiga GFX chips). However, this can be solved by
       telling the Retina to refresh the screen form the Amiga
       GFX chips whilst the anim is playing - it just runs a bit
       slow, but I don't find this a problem *;o)

    2) When I got my new A4000 =Bo) I had a problem promoting the
       size of the Imagine screen above it's default 640x512 using
       the software promotion provided with the Retina.  However
       this was solved by performing the "Binary Hack" people
       have been talking about on the IML (you just edit the relevant
       bytes in the Imagine binary that contain the default screen-
       size).  Note: I did not have this problem when using Imagine
       on my A2000.

    To wind up I'll just say that I now find it very hard to use
    Imagine round at my friends house on a regular display.  It's
    really nice to be able to view quickrenders etc. in full 24bit
    as soon as they are displayed.  I should also mention that the
    Retina comes with some very good software for building 24bit
    animations.  Its really nice to be able to see you master piece
    playing in glorious 24bit at 20 odd fps!

    Hope this is of use,
                Alex...

> thanks in advance.

> bill.

%-----\|/------------------- #include <.siggy.h> --------------------------%
%    (o o)     [e-mail]         -=* Retina's Rule *Bo) *=-  %
%-oOO-(_)-OOo- CSE Student @ Warwick Uni. UK  "All opinions are just mine" %


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 347   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 08:53:42 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)
Subject: Re: Lens flare object

On Mon, 24 Jan 1994, Mike McCool wrote:

>
>>       Excuse me now.  I have to go do pennance for my awful
>> sacrilege.

MMM... I may have to join you... I was wondering if I could convert my imagine
pics to run in quicktime. Awful just positively aweful I know But hey I had
to ask....

well, see ya at the table mike....

                                        Lesk




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 348   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 07:24:44 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: QuickTrans


> QuickTrans is set of libs to replace some of the math libs.  It supposedly
> increases performance of various functions.  Has anyone tried this with
> Imagine?  If so, is there an improvement in rendering times?

There are several ways you can compile floating point software.  You can
use calls to the FFP math library, the IEEE math library, or use inline
6888x code.  Using a library means that your same binary can run on
system with and without a FPU, and still get a performance boost from
the FPU if it is there.  But most really performance critical apps (like
3D rendering utilities, say) use inline FP code.  With that, you can
replace the floating point libraries all you want and it won't matter
because you are just using inlined FPU instructions.  So assuming you
are running the FP version of Imagine, I suspect you won't see any
difference if you use a new FP library (although I don't know exactly
how Imagine is compiled).

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 349   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 09:23:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Lens flare object

Hey, Photoshop ain't just for Macs anymore.  Anybody got a copy of
Photoshop for Windows, and Imagine PC?  Does the Windows version have the
same capability?  Inquiring minds want to know...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 350   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 12:04:10 -0400 (EST)
From: ecorbin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Lens flare object

Actually I think PhotoShop has been ported to Windows, or is going to
very soon.

Earl C.
[e-mail]





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 351   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 11:16:37 -0800 (PST)
From: ANIEMANN <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: QuickTrans
Autoforwarded: false
Importance: normal
Priority: normal
Sensitivity: Company-Confidential
Ua-Content-Id: 1181CAD02200
Hop-Count: 1

Some time ago there was a fast math trans, written by an Italian if I
remember correctly. It was on a Fred Fish disk. When I used it on my A1000
(with Lucas/Frances) I got a 4X speed increase in rendering. It didn't
give me any speed increase though on my A3000 with DOS2.
andy





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 352   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 09:03:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Stereo Imagine & PC Price

>
> And:  What techniques are required to view 3D stereo images rendered by
> the generator in the project editor?

I'm not terribly impressed with Imagine's setup for stereo viewing.  I
much prefer making my own, by simply offsetting the camera position on
its local X-axis by the appropriate interpupillary distance in a pair of
still frames. I then print the frames to film, and use a cheap 3D viewer
($6.95, from Reel 3D Enterprises) to look at them.  You can also do
free-viewing stereo pairs on almost any printer, if you squeeze the image
sizes down to about 4-5cm., and print them beside each other.
>
> (One more!):  How much is Imagine PC?  I have a friend with a 486DX-33
> who's seen the Amiga version running on an accelerated (50Mhz-ish) 1200
> with 6 Mb RAM...

Upgrading from the Amiga is US$100, but new purchases are the same list
price as the Amiga version.  It's definitely worthwhile for your friend to
buy a heavily-discounted Amiga version, then pay the upgrade price for
the PC version.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 353   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 11:53:45 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)
Subject: Where is Worley??

        I just tried to get the phone # for Apex Software Publishing in
Menlo Park, Ca. to order another copy of Understanding Imagine 2.0 and was
told that they didn't have a listing. Does anyone know how to reach Mr
Worley?
                                not quite in panic mode yet!!!,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Toasters don't burn toast. People burn toast."
                        Curator Seattle Toaster Museum

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 354   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (William V. Swartz)
Subject: Re: Freeform3D_1a.lha
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 15:13:40 -0500 (EST)

>
> Just grabbed this program from Aminet gfx/3d... WOW! Looks very impressive.
> And the author isn't kidding about speed either. Its a demo version of a new
> modeller that saves Imagine, Real3D and Lightwave. B-spline etc. Save
> disabled, hes asking a measly 70 bucks for a registered version. The interface
> is very nice too. This seems much more usable than Icoons...
>

Just when I was sold on the idea of buying Vertex 2.0!  I am glad to see
that we have choices in external modellers, but how does this compare to
Vertex?  AniMatrix?

And on the subject of AniMatrix, is modelling with X-Specs glasses really
worth doing?

Recommendations appreciated...

  //
\X/ -BiL-
    [e-mail]             (See my 'Imagine'-ary signature below)


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 355   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 14:22:02 +1100
From: [e-mail]

Hi All,

     I have again uploaded the Imagine attribute files to wuarchive in the
aminet side. I have gotten an auto response from the server that the files
have been processed, but it did not say if they had been moved from the "new"
directory or not. The files are atts-1.lha, atts-2.lha and atts-3.lha, along
with .readme files. They were originaly placed in systems/amiga/aminet/new,
but they may have been moved by now. These files were provided by Sorin Wind
for our enjoyment. Sorry for not getting these files back up on wuarchive
sooner after the crash, but I have had trouble with my ftp access. Thank you
Soren for providing the files :-)

                                                   Scott Lundholm

 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | Amiga 500/030 at 38Mhz w/68882 at |    Email [e-mail]    |
 | 50Mhz, 8Meg of 32-bit RAM, Bodega |                 Memeber                |
 | Bay w/105M,450M, & 1G Hard Drives,|    Redwood Empire Amiga Users Group    |
 | HP PaintJet, 16" HP Programmable  |      3D Rendering Enthusiast and       |
 | Multisynch w/Flicker Free Video.  |  graphics fanatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  |
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 356   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 14:41:22 +1100
From: [e-mail]


Greetings,

I want to thank everyone for the warm welcome(s) I got when I signed up on
the board.  I'de seen a lot of the conversation on here before I signed on
and didn't really know how welcome I'de be - again...thanx...

Nik Vukovljak-
About the Grow FX bug - we know about the problem and its slated to be fixed
before V3.0.  thanx...

Greg -
Every other character missing on PC subgroups?!? - never heard of that one.
I'll have to check it out.  thanx...

John Hawksley -
>...how do I change the direction of a non-spherical light source?

In the Action editor, you have to change the numbers in the light's
alignment bar.  In the Stage just use Rotate.  Remember that the light
points in the direction of the Y axis (V3.0 has light lines that are
great for setting up lighting.)

>...to view 3D stereo images...?

On the Amiga, you can get these special glasses that work with the
computers video sync signal, and if you look at the pic on a non-flicker
fixed monitor, you see 3D...

>[Price]?

Give us a call - we may be able to get you some kind of upgrade price deal.
Sorry, I really don't know the proce schedule myself.
Impulse [phone]

Mike McCool-
About the Photoshop lensflare:  I've seen it, very cool - only prob is you can't
get it to look like the flare came from an off-screen light source. Also, you
can't really control what it looks like either.  Still, it looks very convincing
and adds a dramatic touch. PS - PhotoShop also runs on the PC under Windows -
much less hassle transferring files.  (Kai's Power Tools - What a sick little
monkey - Wish I'de done it...).

Retina Prob -
I'm doing some work trying to get Imagine to behave in ape-size resolutions, On
The Retina I have, a good portion of the top left corner of the screen gets
burried behind the edge of the monitor.  Is there a way to move the top left
corner of the retina screen?

        bip....            sk...



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 357   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
Subject: Re: Where is Worley??
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 18:29:46 PDT

>
>         I just tried to get the phone # for Apex Software Publishing in
> Menlo Park, Ca. to order another copy of Understanding Imagine 2.0 and was
> told that they didn't have a listing. Does anyone know how to reach Mr
> Worley?

415-322-7532

_john



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 358   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
Subject: Re: Freeform3D
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 16:42:32 PST

William V. Swartz writes:
>
> Just when I was sold on the idea of buying Vertex 2.0!  I am glad to see
> that we have choices in external modellers, but how does this compare to
> Vertex?

FreeForm is a "Bspline and NURB" type modeller, Vertex is more of a
traditional polygon modeller.  Vertex probably has more custom tools and
functions, but FreeForm does look pretty good!

The author brags about speed ... he means rendering speed versus
Real-3D.  I suppose it's faster (I've not Real-3D), but then again it
only renders wireframe or b/w simple-shaded screens, with a title-bar in
the picture even.   Well, it's just a modeller really, and the solid
preview is of course nice.  I haven't worked with this kind of 3D
modelling enough to really evaluate it as such, but it looks like it has
everything you'd need, and what I've tried, works (no crashes or
anything like that).  I was able to model a heart fairly easily and in
only a few minutes.  Can't save it though (DEMO - save disabled).

The interface is nice - reminds me a lot of Caligari.  You can fully
edit and view the objects in perspective mode.  Taper and Twist both
have very fast real-time feedback.

Only quirk (IMHO) is that it opens a whole bunch of screens, one only
40-50 pixels high, and it's easy to get them suffled all out of order
when you've got WB screen, dirOpus, Terminus, etc.... (like right now!)

Anyway, it's worth the 689K download to check it out.  There's a whole
bunch of demo pics and one sample object in Imagine, LightWave, and
Real-3D format.  The LW format is actually GEO, and I needed to "align"
the polys to get it to render right.  (It's made of triangles, and has
the classic case of "every-other-poly-flipped-the-wrong-way" that you
often get when converting Imagine/etc objects to LW.  I don't know if
the full version of FreeForm can save >3 point polygons for LW.)

--
Jeff Walkup <[e-mail]> Computer Graphics, Animation, Video


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 359   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 18:35:02 PST
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
Subject: Re: multi-faceted unsmoothed transparent objects



>
>>      I have noticed, however, that a transparent object with a refractive
>> index over about 1.5 and a large number of facets will turn very dark
>> when rendered.  Does anyone know why this happens, and what can be done
>> about it ?
>
>Sounds like total internal reflection. This is a common real world phenomenon
>that occurs with refractive objects. With the right combination of angles
>and refractive indices, a situation can occur where light entering the
>medium gets refracted to an extreme enough angle that it cannot pass back
>out (and just sort of bounces around inside :-)

     I'm having the same problem with a raytraced "dropped rock in water"
segment. The spout that morphs out after the rock's passage is dark, as is
the droplet that breaks off. Is there an easy fix (besides speeding up the
segment so nobody notices ;-)? or even a difficult one?

                                                 Christopher



--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).       Join the Animation Sig!


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 360   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 20:52:30 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)
Subject: Multiple Brushmaps on cube

Hello Imagineers!
        A hearty thanks to those who responded to my question about quicktime

        My next question is about Brushmaps. I would like to do a cube with
six different people on each side. every time I try only one shows up. I
thought about just making six grids then placing them tegether and then
grouping but then as you rotate the cube it shows gaps etc.
        While I was playing around with this it brought me to another
question. can you apply a map, texture etc. to just one triangle of a face
and if not how much control do you really have?
        for example if I had a grid with only two triangles say 200 X 400 units
as compared to one that had say 800 triangles and the same size how would
that effect the general appearance of my object when rendering? from
everything I know so far it seems logical that the more triangles you have
the better the detail is. I have read the manual cover to cover nothing is
mentioned about this. (A funny comment here might be in order. My wife was
visiting her parents when imagine arrived. Upoun her return several days
later she tried to be excited about the program, but couldn't figure out
how come impulse didn't send me a new manual. It was pretty funny when she
realized it was just due to my intense reading of it that almost wore off
the cover.)
as much as I enjoyed the book it left many questions. and was hard to referance
but was a very good tutorial. good thing I am not a coffee drinker I would
have been nuts with all that caffiene (good thing they didn't send me to
the pub!)

                        Thanks All (sorry about the rambling on)
                           Lesk




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 361   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 00:20:56 +1100 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Subject: IML archives

In case people have been wondering about the recent IML archives...

Archive #45 is ready (Dec '93), but I cannot upload it to wuarchive since
it won't let me! Also, archive #44 has dissapeared from the
/incoming/imagine directory. I will put it back in there once I can get
the upload access back. Did anyone have a chance to download this archive ?
I've E-mailed Dave Wickard about the above problems and I'm waiting on
the info back from him...

Nik Vukovljak (IML archivist)





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 362   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 00:59:25 +1100 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: multi-faceted unsmoothed transparent objects


On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, JOSEPH F. HART wrote:

>      I have been experimenting with multi-faceted transparent objects.
> I have been trying things like cut glass objects and gemstones.  I
> have recently tried a diamond done in the standard faceting style
> known to lapidaries as the "brilliant" cut.  I have carefully checked
> all the facet planes and angles, and they are correct, as is the index
> of refraction.  I am aware that Imagine cannot yet model the prismatic
> or "rainbow" effect of a refractive object.
>
>      I have noticed, however, that a transparent object with a refractive
> index over about 1.5 and a large number of facets will turn very dark
> when rendered.  Does anyone know why this happens, and what can be done
> about it ?
>
> Thanks...
>

I've had the same thing happen to me when I made a diamond object. There
is a way to fix this. This is due to the way Imagine does transparency.

What Imagine needs to have is 2 layers to render transparency with
refraction properly (e.g. bottles only look realistic if made of 2 layers
rather than just one)

With the diamond it is a bit different. To get a really good effect, use
your object and then inside it place another object with some faces
missing (e.g. a sphere) so that the triangles that are inside are at all
different angles. Makke sure that Phong is off and join these 2 objects
(or you may not need to but I do) and give both the diamond attributes.
A friend of mine came up with this solution and his diamond look really
realistic with all the right effects except for the 'rainbow' effect
which is not possible with Imagine.

Try this and see how you go.

Nik.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 363   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 09:00:21 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Photoshop on other platforms

Photoshop is on mac, windows, and silicon graphics.  The program's interface
is almost identical for each platform (if I remember my Computer Pictures
articles correctly).  You can also run photoshop on your amiga with that
Emplant (tm) board, at least they show it running on their print ads.
Last I heard (again, from their ads) they were trying to get it up to
Mac Quadra speeds (way cool dude).  Plus they said there was a way to make
it pretend to be an IBM or a Sega Genesis (that sounds like fun too).

Last I heard from amaxII (about 3 years ago) they didn't have color implemented
in their emulation.  Has that changed?

Shawn Joyce
[e-mail]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 364   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 09:36:43 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)
Subject: Re: Multiple Brushmaps on cube

>Let me know if you still want to know how to use "subgroups" - though
>that is covered in the manual (don't ask me where though!)

Yes by all means, I would like to know more. I wonder where as well? I have
read the book cover to cover about 4 times and of course built my own short
reference manual. Dumb me to think 3.0 would be out before august so I
didn't buy worley's
book and it's still on back order now. The only info I ever found was from
an old version of vertex that had a manual that discussed the triangular
methods etc. it was very good but of course it was more specific to vertex.

>If the object is flat, like a plane or side of a cube, it shouldn't
>matter.  Use the least amount of polys you can get away with.  Be aware
>that it _will_ matter if you're going to deform the object in any way
>(with the ripple FX or morphing, for example).

I had pretty much concluded this especially for an f/x like explode the
more faces you have the more bits of it you get flying around. What I meant
was something like a wood grain or noise etc. but I think I understand.
also about morphing is there a program out there that might take objects of
different point and face counts and do some intermediate objects for a
morph
although in terms of programming it would be a monster but it sure would be
nice.

>
>--
>Jeff Walkup <[e-mail]> Computer Graphics, Animation, Video

                                Many Thanks Jeff
                                    Lesk





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 365   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
Subject: Subgroups | Morphing
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 8:43:59 PST


OK, subgroups are easy - just select the faces of the object that you
want seperate, (in "pick faces" mode) and then select "Make subgroup"
and give it a name.  Then you can assign your brushmap in "Attributes"
and type in the name under "subgroup" in the brushmap requestor.
That's about it!  You can later re-select those faces by entering "pick
faces" mode and selecting "Pick subgroup".  Be careful about doing
operations like slice, merge, join, split, fracture, etc... because
those tend to lose the subgroup info of your object.  In other words, do
your slice/fracture first, THEN assign subgroups.


> I had pretty much concluded this especially for an f/x like explode the
> more faces you have the more bits of it you get flying around. What I meant
> was something like a wood grain or noise etc. but I think I understand.

By "wood grain or noise", I assume you mean using a texture/brushmap?
Well, the complexity of your model shouldn't affect that, in general.
I.e. a flat plane with 10 polygons with a brushmap should look identical
to a flat plane with 2 polygons with the brushmap.


> also about morphing is there a program out there that might take objects of
> different point and face counts and do some intermediate objects for a
> morph

Ah, you're talking about _Morphus_.  That was a program done by some
Italians (I think?) and bought and released by Impulse.  Dunno if it's
still available.  Morphus would do just that - create intermediate
objects, though I don't think you could take just any two random
objects and expect the morph to look good.  I tried Morphus out at my
dealer years ago - I did the included tutorial morph, which looked great
of course.  But that's all I tried - I didn't like the interface much.

--
Jeff Walkup <[e-mail]> Computer Graphics, Animation, Video


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 366   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 09:06:05 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)
Subject: slice NOT!!!

        Well, finally happened to me. After singing the praises of "slice"
the fickle little bugger turned on me last night. It wouldn't let me slice
to save my life. I tried repositioning both the slicer and the slicee (sp),
I tried changing slicer types.... nothing worked. About a week ago someone
on the list mentioned their method for disciplining "slice" when it gets
stubborn. Could someone tell me their theories.
        I hope in 3.0 this is a more robust tool, when it's working it's
awesome!
                                betrayed,

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Toasters don't burn toast. People burn toast."
                        Curator Seattle Toaster Museum

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 367   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
    (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0pPEEt-0007vtC; Wed, 26 Jan 94 12:41 EST
        (4.1/client/jimberau-1.0) id AA05561; Wed, 26 Jan 94 12:42:04 EST
Subject: 2.9LoadBug
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 12:42:03 EST



          Has anyone else noticed that the "LOAD" flag in the preferences
     does not work in 2.9?  It loads all modules even when it is set to
     'F'.  As a result, Imagine uses ~2 megs.  I just figured it out this
     morning at 1:00 am, and it really ticked me off because the reason I
     spent $600 on an accelerator for my 1200 when I really couldn't afford
     it is because 2.9 wouldn't load in my two megs.  I hate thinking it's
     because that flag doesn't work.

          Nick



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 368   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
    id <[e-mail]> with CCTORFC Wed Jan 26 18:29:40 1994
Date: 26 Jan 94 10:12:00 -0800
Subject: Re[2]: Freeform3D_1a.lha

>And on the subject of AniMatrix, is modelling with X-Specs glasses really
>worth doing?
>
>Recommendations appreciated...
>
>  //
>\X/ -BiL-
>    [e-mail]             (See my 'Imagine'-ary signature below)


     I suppose it depends on the software.  I downloaded a pd 3d
     modeller to use with my xspecs, don't know if it was AniMatrix,
     but it was difficult to see all those fine lines in interlace in
     3d, so I don't use it.  Does Vertex2.0 support xspecs?

     Sure would like to see a quality 3d xspecs modeller.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 369   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 12:42:48 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Re: Photoshop on other platforms

> Last I heard from amaxII (about 3 years ago) they didn't have color implemented
> in their emulation.  Has that changed?
>
check out comp.sys.amiga.emulations Newsgroup.  Lots going on overthere
talking about this stuff.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 370   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 17:24:00 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Saffold)
Subject: Re: PEGGER/DBLSPACE


Uucp> > Well, I've used the XPK software, and hae yet to have a problem with
Uucp> > it.  It has worked flawlessly, for several months of continual
Uucp> usage.

Uucp> I think I'm going to write to Urban and suggest a JPEG module for XPK
Uucp> :-).
Uucp> Who knows, maybe he'll find somebody to write one.  XPK is the perfect
Uucp> solution for that.

Yeah, thats a REALLY good idea, IMHO..  However, with something like
that, it would/could possibly make pegger obsolete, as you can then
make Imagine automatically de-compress them..  Could be interesting..

 * Q-Blue 1.0* ...Never believe what a computer tells you.
--
*******************************************************************
*  Cuerna Verde BBS FidoNet Gateway  *  Data/Fax: [phone]  *
*  Pueblo, Colorado USA              *  FidoNet:  1:307/18        *
*******************************************************************


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 371   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Greebo <[e-mail]83u>
Subject: Lens flare
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 17:25:29 +0000 (WET)
X-Organisation: Staffs University Funny Farm (School of Computing)

Hi there!

Firstly:  Thanks to everyone who helped out with my last query -- I have
another one though!

Can someone explain to me about how to get lens-flare on a scene,
please.  I suspect it's a feature of the upgrade because I can't find it
anywhere on Imagine 2.0 (AF Coverdisk).

Also, is it possible to make your own textures, and why are they so
small?

Thanks in advance!

John


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* John Hawksley     * "Do the Americans Realise that  *  Internal: CM3BCJH2   *
* 13C Brooke Court  *  the security of  their nation  *        BS88::SUAMGR   *
* Milton Grove      *  is in the  hands  of the same  *                       *
* Highfields        *  people  who  designed the ADA  * (It all goes into the *
* Stafford          *  Language?"                     *  same mailbox anyhow) *
*                   *                                 *                       *
* [phone] *      [e-mail]      *  S.U. VTX BBS Editor  *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*     To Err is Human -- To Really Foul Things Up Requires A VAX Cluster      *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 372   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 11:55:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Stereo Imagine
        Imagine MailingList <[e-mail]>

This only works for rendering stills, so far.

Set up your scene, including camera placement and scaling, for frame 1.
Make sure all your timelines extend through frame 2, with the exception of
the Camera Position timeline.  The Camera Position should be a set of
single-frame timelines, one for each frame you're going to render. (I
often do several stereo pair views of each scene.)

In frame 2, use the Transformation requester to Translate the Camera on
the Local X-axis.  The exact distance will depend on your world scale; I
work in 1 unit=1 cm., and displace the camera 6.5 units.

If you have any kind of distant background images, you'll need to displace
them the same amount, in the same direction, so they look like they're far
away.

Render your pair of frames, and print them with whatever you have
available.  Laser printers with decent halftoning do OK, but best is 35mm
color film for slides.  Reel 3D Enterprises in Culver City sells a plastic
viewer for five or six bucks, into which you just drop standard 35mm
slides.  I made a bunch of stereo pairs and gave them with viewers as
Christmas presents this year.  If you have to go to a service bureau for
the slides, they can cost a few bucks apiece, but having the slides
duplicated is usually about fifty cents at a photo shop.

If you have to print to paper, scale the images so the centers are spaced
the same distance as the cameras were.  View the images by holding the
paper at about a foot from your face, and look into the middle distance
THROUGH the images.  They should merge into a single 3D image.  If you
still don't get it, there are books on 3D imaging you can consult.

This works REALLY well for architectural and scientific visualization.

I don't have the info for Reel 3D with me right now, but I'll post it later.

Oh, and try to resist the temptation to push your cameras up close to the
subject.  If you'd have to be cross-eyed to see it, so would the camera.
I wouldn't try to focus on anything closer than about 25 cm.




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 373   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Goldman)
    id AA69819; Wed, 26 Jan 94 15:45:28 -0500
Subject: Re: slice NOT!!!
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 15:45:28 EST

>
>         Well, finally happened to me. After singing the praises of "slice"
> the fickle little bugger turned on me last night. It wouldn't let me slice
> to save my life. I tried repositioning both the slicer and the slicee (sp),
> I tried changing slicer types.... nothing worked. About a week ago someone
> on the list mentioned their method for disciplining "slice" when it gets
> stubborn. Could someone tell me their theories.
>         I hope in 3.0 this is a more robust tool, when it's working it's
> awesome!
>                                 betrayed,
>
> Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]
>
> 13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
> Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]


    I've had this problem as well. I've discovered that after
moving or fracturing faces the problem still existed. It turns out I
was slicing one object with another object that was previously
joined/merged. The reason this is relevent is because not all the
vertexes on the joined/merged object were connected. In other words,
the two joined/merged objects didn't necessarily share the same edges,
vertexes, faces, etc... I'm assuming that when the slice function
didn't work it was because Imagine was doing some funky thing to that
joined/merged object.
    To alleviate the situation I reloaded the two object I
originally had joined/merged. I then sliced these two object together,
joined them, and then merged them. Now every part of this structure
was integrated into one object. I then tried doing the slice I wanted
to do in the first place and didn't have any problems with it.
    So I've discovered that joined/merged objects that don't share
a fully integrated structure don't slice well with other objects. The
problem with slicing everything, as I have explained, is that you end
up with more faces than you need. Anybody know of any tools that will
reduce the number of polygons to the absolute necessary? isn't there a
tool in Imagine3.0 that will simplify the structure of an object?
    Hope this helps...

                        Jeff G.----->
E-Mail: [e-mail]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 374   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Slice's other problem
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 14:31:25 PST

mime-version:1.0

Slice also has another annoying problem that I don't see mentioned ever, and
was wondering if it's me or does everyone have this problem with it?

So far, I haven't had too much problems with doing the actual slice. It's
after I get rid of all the crud I don't want, an otherwise smoothly shaded
object now has distorted shading near the area of the slice. Kind of looks
like rippling. After doing the slice, there are a lot of new edges & faces
made. I wonder if that has something to do with it. Everything is set to
Phong shading, and I still get this problem! The only fix I've been able to
find is to individually manipulate points and edges to get the proper shading.
I think we all know how old THAT can get! Is this problem also going to be
addressed in V3.0?


--
@**************************************************************************@
*                                      Religion is to Philosophy what      *
*  Byrt Martinez                       Crafts are to Art                   *
*  - Non-Christian  8^P                                                    *
*    (Fred 12:45)                                                          *
*                                         *
*  [e-mail], [e-mail]                       *
@**************************************************************************@




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 375   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 18:14:34 -0400 (EST)
From: ecorbin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Lens Flare

the article mentioned is in Amazing Amiga, (latest issue I suppose).

Earl C.
[e-mail]





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 376   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 09:42:01 EST
From: [e-mail] (Graeme Mc Donough)
Subject: Fonts

In the 2.9 tutorial it says that you need a font of sorts, so that you can
use these fonts in the turorial. I think it is a postcript font but i am
not shure.
I certainly don't have any of these fonts, but I shure would like to know
where I could get hold of some of these..
Can anybody help??


/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-SUN
Graeme Mc Donough,
INTERNET: [e-mail]  (postmaster)
                                                                        ///
Monash University                                                      ///
Dpt of Earth Sciences                                                 ///
Clayton, Melbourne                                                \\\///
Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3168                                           \XX/
PHONE: [phone]
/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-TWIRL





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 377   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 18:10:14 -0400 (EST)
From: ecorbin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Lens flare



On Wed, 26 Jan 1994, Greebo wrote:

> Can someone explain to me about how to get lens-flare on a scene,
> please.  I suspect it's a feature of the upgrade because I can't find it
> anywhere on Imagine 2.0 (AF Coverdisk).

You got it.  Flare is a 2.9+ feature for Imagine...however, somebody
mentioned an article on a lens flare _object_ (the 2.9 lens flare is a
texture) that is tailored for 2.0  Perhaps they could help?

Earl C.
[e-mail]





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 378   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date:     Wed, 26 Jan 1994 18:46:27 -0800
From: Steve Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: How to unsubscribe/subscribe


Since I seem to see a lot of unsubscribe messages on here...  Heres the
trick.


Send your unsubscribe REQUEST to:

[e-mail]

  Note that this address is the same as the IML, except for the -request
part.

  You can remember this by, "Gee I would like to
subscribe/unsubscribe, maybe I'll post a request."

  To which you then post your request to imagine-request.

The format I use is to put in both the subject and body of the message
the word UNSUBSCRIBE (as I cant remember whether it is required as the
subject or the body using both seems to work just fine.)

Hopefully my days of subscribing/unsubscribing are over for a while, as I
see to have finally found a reliable host. (knock on wood, and any other
superstitious beleifs that might help...)

Hope this helps.

Steve Lopez [e-mail] (formerly [e-mail])




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 379   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
    (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0pPMQR-0007vuC; Wed, 26 Jan 94 21:25 EST
        (4.1/client/jimberau-1.0) id AA03231; Wed, 26 Jan 94 21:26:32 EST
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 21:26:32 EST
Subject: RE: 2.9LoadBug

Yeah that's the error.  It occurred only before I got more ram.  Imagine takes
up 2 megs since that flag doesn't work.  So if you're running with less than
3 megs, it probably won't work.

   Nick


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 380   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Paul Marino)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 01:09:33 EST

About Parnet...  (sorry I missed the first posting)

I know of a program called Twin Express. From what I have heard
it's Parnet between the ADOS world and MS-DOS world. I'm not sure whether
it's a commercial prog or shareware/freeware. (I think it's shareware)
It comes with sw for both sides as well as a cabling diagram.

A friend of mine says it works pretty well (Xfer time = 50k/sec).
While not Ethernet, Its better than loading up two com progs and
null modem...

BTW, only on the Amiga side does it multi-task...(Really?)

Sorry for eatin' the BW.....

Paul Marino..([e-mail])


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 381   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 16:57:33 EST
From: [e-mail] (Graeme Mc Donough)
Subject: Re: ParNet

>ParNet and IBM...
>
>>I know somebody out there said that they use ParNet to connect an Amiga
>>and an IBM.  Can someone give me some help with this?  Thanx...
>
>I'm sorry to say that but I really don't think that anybody will ever use
>ParNet on an IBM, since ParNet is a system designed and programmed to fit
>seamlessly into the Amiga OS, like devices, assigns, etc.
>There's nothing like this exists on the PC...
>But there is a solution, which is not as powerful as ParNet, but it works
>for
>file copying / moving stuff. The name of the package is TWIN, it includes
>an
>Amiga executable and an MSDOS EXE file. I used it one time, it worked. I
>dunno if it's on Aminet or not.
>Or you can use a comm. program with a null modem cable...
>
>                                        Greg Kovacs
>                                [e-mail]
>
>PS.: We developed a long time ago a file sender/receiver system on the
>Amiga,
>especially for our needs in the animation business, (e.g. moving huge files
>between two workstations) it does a realime compression (030 or 040) and
>high
>speed sending on the parallel port. We might port it later to the PC...


I would be verry interested in anything of the above if it works...

Let me know please..



/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-SUN
Graeme Mc Donough,
INTERNET: [e-mail]  (postmaster)
                                                                        ///
Monash University                                                      ///
Dpt of Earth Sciences                                                 ///
Clayton, Melbourne                                                \\\///
Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3168                                           \XX/
PHONE: [phone]
/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-TWIRL





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 382   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Paul Marino)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 01:12:04 EST

Hello people of imagination...

I seemed to have what might(or might not be) an Imagine problem.

Has anyone ever had a problem with their HD and Imagine?

I've been rendering animations over the last couple of weeks and
after each animation completes, I get MASSIVE read errors when
trying to display the rendered frames.

Now I've dealt with my Amiga for years and I've explored what I feel
should be the first places to look (i.e., drive optimazation, remappping
of bad blocks , etc.) but the last common denominator is always the same...

frames rendered from Imagine will always give me read errors!

All other s/w that I use (VistaPro, Light24) I haven't had a problem with.

I know this problems sounds weird but its the only reason
that seems feasible.

Well if anyone has any solutions, I welcome the e-mail.

Thanks fer the BW...

Paul Marino ([e-mail])


P.S. I'm using Imagine 2.9...


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 383   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 21:31:48 +0800
Originator: real3d
Precedence: bulk
From: John Shiali <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hi... and some questions
X-Listserver-Version: 6.0 -- UNIX ListServer by Anastasios Kotsikonas

Hi Erdem (Erdem Taylan), on Jan 27 you wrote:

> 1> I know that a SARE version of the Real3D is in the works for the Silicon
> Graphics platform. Does this also supports the much awated Screamer board
> from Newtek that is also based on Silicon Graphics chips namely the ones
> from the MIPS Technologies (R4400)? If not, why? Also are there any plan to

Newtek is obviouly going to try to keep this for the netwaor versions
of the Toaster - no one else knows how to program this! Besides it's
pretty expensive!

> do a version for the greatly promising but missing support TIGA boards like
> Vivid 24 or Rambrandt?

I don't see why not if there is enough interest - bu do you know
anyone who has either of these boards? Is the Vivid even still being
made?

>Any possibility concerning the Warp Transputer
> board?

Yes, supposedly being looked at now.


========================================================================
"It was ten inches long, and glowed bright red at the tip..."
                                            - Gary Hampton 25/1/94
========================================================================


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 384   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 00:47:04 +1100 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 2.9LoadBug


On Wed, 26 Jan 1994 [e-mail] wrote:

>
>
>           Has anyone else noticed that the "LOAD" flag in the preferences
>      does not work in 2.9?  It loads all modules even when it is set to
>      'F'.  As a result, Imagine uses ~2 megs.  I just figured it out this
>      morning at 1:00 am, and it really ticked me off because the reason I
>      spent $600 on an accelerator for my 1200 when I really couldn't afford
>      it is because 2.9 wouldn't load in my two megs.  I hate thinking it's
>      because that flag doesn't work.
>
>           Nick
>

Hmm, this could be because this option does not work on the PC, and they
are now developing on the PC.
Also, if you have an A4000/040 the option has to be on T otherwise Imagine
crashes unless Copyback is turned off.

Nik.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 385   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 09:12:09 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)
Subject: Re: Imagine & HD probs

>Paul Marino ([e-mail])
>
>
>P.S. I'm using Imagine 2.9...

That's probably why. 2.9 overall really sucks rocks. actually I like it
until you start any thing to do with anims. Right now it is just a good
picture maker.
But if you have the same trouble with 2.0 you might worry about a virus. I had
one that was not picked up by any virus protection program around. I finally
saved off all my objects and formatted my disk then using my master disk did
a low level format then started the install process all over again only
installing my purchased software. I have not used rend24 since and all has
been
well for some time now. I don't know that it was the cause but,
I only use a very old version of it now, and tossed the latest one. I only tried
using rend24 because of imagine 2.9 I now only use 2.9 to learn with but
nothing more. it is just to frustrating.

                                                Good luck
                                                   Lesk




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 386   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 08:08:48 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Imagine & HD probs


> [e-mail] (Paul Marino)

> Has anyone ever had a problem with their HD and Imagine?

> frames rendered from Imagine will always give me read errors!

Sounds like you have a separate hardware or configuration problem which,
for whatever reason, is only showing up under Imagine.  I'm pretty sure
Imagine is OK in this area; I've rendered many thousands of frames to
three separate physical disks, with no troubles at all, even while the
system was under fairly heavy use for other purposes (telecom,
compilers, wordproc, etc).

Perhaps something in your configuration is croaking on large writes, or
some other corner case you don't hit much of the time?

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 387   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 08:01:58 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Parnet = Twin Express


> I know of a program called Twin Express. From what I have heard
> it's Parnet between the ADOS world and MS-DOS world. I'm not sure

Does anyone know whether parnet is an actual device?  (As opposed to
just a set of programs, ala FTP).  In other words, can you "cd" to it?
If I understand right (and maybe I don't), parnet is a device, but
twinexpress is just an "ftp" like program(s), which is much less useful.

Also, on a related but somewhat more Imagine related note...

I have a question about Imagine PC.  Lets say that I have a 486/66 and I
were to buy Imagine for it.  Then I model a project on Imagine on the
Amiga, with the goal being to eventually render the animation on *both*
machines (ie, every other frame on the PC, every other on the Amiga, or
something like that).  If I make sure to use only 8.3 filenames when
creating the project, can I just copy the project directory tree over to
Imagine PC, and render it?  That's what I want to do.  I see only one
problem: no Essence yet on the PC, but since Apex claims to be working
on it, that problem will go away in time.  What I don't know is whether
the object formats are the same, the image brushmap formats are the
same, etc.  Will everything work OK?  Does anyone have experience with
doing this sort of thing?  I have a vague notion that the object formats
are compatible, but I'm not really too sure.

Anyway, when rendering long animations, I really hate to waste any of
the CPU power I have available...  Also, can Amiga imagine owners get
Imagine/PC for a reasonable price?  Heck, I don't even need the UI - I'd
be happy to buy just a stand-alone rendering engine if there was one.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 388   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date:     Thu, 27 Jan 1994 07:04:57 -0800
From: Steve Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Parnet = Twin Express



On Wed, 26 Jan 1994, Paul Marino wrote:

> About Parnet...  (sorry I missed the first posting)
>
> I know of a program called Twin Express. From what I have heard
> it's Parnet between the ADOS world and MS-DOS world. I'm not sure whether
> it's a commercial prog or shareware/freeware. (I think it's shareware)
> It comes with sw for both sides as well as a cabling diagram.
>
> A friend of mine says it works pretty well (Xfer time = 50k/sec).
> While not Ethernet, Its better than loading up two com progs and
> null modem...
>
> BTW, only on the Amiga side does it multi-task...(Really?)
>
> Sorry for eatin' the BW.....
>
> Paul Marino..([e-mail])
>

I have used Twin Xpress, not sure where it is available...I lost my copy
in the great hd crash of 1992 (before I invested in my tape backup)

It is actually capable of some pretty quick speeds.  Basically it allows
you to work very similar to ftp a dir command lists the local machine
directory, a ~dir lists the remote dir.  all the commands work this way.
if preceded by a ~ it is a command on the remote computer.

Yes it does multitask on the amiga side, I dont know if it eats a lot of
processor time because it never took long enought to transfer anything to
really tell.

If you set it up with a special cable that has the RTS/CTS pins (I think
they are crossed like a Null cable crosses the RX/TX but not sure, the
proggy comes with good instructions) it can use a special xfer protocol
and supposedly will transfer at 125k or something like that.  I ran it at
the slower rate because I had a cable ran about 100 feet through a wall
and under the house to another room, and I didnt want to spend the money
for a cable with more wires inside.  I just used a three wire cable.

I was pretty happy with it when I used it.  I have since switched to a
bridgecard inside the amiga, and just use Aread and Awrite to move files
back and forth.

Hope this helps...

Steve.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 389   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 15:16:54 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Ian Bale)
Subject: Re: Fonts

> In the 2.9 tutorial it says that you need a font of sorts, so that you can
> use these fonts in the turorial. I think it is a postcript font but i am
> not shure.
> I certainly don't have any of these fonts, but I shure would like to know
> where I could get hold of some of these..
> Can anybody help??
>


Have a look on wuarchive.wustl.edu

These archive contain approx 300 PS fonts. Some are really good, others
are quite poor.

For your information, I'm currently in the process of converting them
all to CompuGraphic format. Should be completed in about 2 months, I'll
upload them when I've finished.

/pub/aminet/text/font

AT1Fonts-C1.lha      text/font  581K 145+AT1Fonts Calligraphy-1 font disk
AT1Fonts-C2.lha      text/font  394K 147+AT1Fonts Calligraphy-2 font disk
AT1Fonts-D1.lha      text/font  779K 147+AT1Fonts Dingbats-1 font disk
AT1Fonts-D2.lha      text/font  193K 147+AT1Fonts Dingbats-2 font disk
AT1Fonts-I1.lha      text/font  581K 147+AT1Fonts International-1 font disk
AT1Fonts-INDEX.lha   text/font   74K 147+Adobe Type 1 (PostScript) Fonts for PageStream 2.22
AT1Fonts-M1.lha      text/font  744K 145+AT1Fonts Medieval-1 font disk
AT1Fonts-N1.lha      text/font  366K 147+AT1Fonts Novelty-1 font disk
AT1Fonts-N2.lha      text/font  723K 145+AT1Fonts Novelty-2 font disk
AT1Fonts-N3.lha      text/font  735K 147+AT1Fonts Novelty-3 font disk
AT1Fonts-N4.lha      text/font  773K 147+AT1Fonts Novelty-4 font disk
AT1Fonts-N6.lha      text/font  620K 147+AT1Fonts Novelty-6 font disk
AT1Fonts-S1.lha      text/font  812K 147+AT1Fonts Serif-1 font disk
AT1Fonts-S2.lha      text/font  737K 145+AT1Fonts Serif-2 font disk
AT1Fonts-S3.lha      text/font  790K 145+AT1Fonts Serif-3 font disk
AT1Fonts-SC1.lha     text/font  706K 147+AT1Fonts Script-1 font disk
AT1Fonts-SC2.lha     text/font  523K 147+AT1Fonts Script-2 font disk
AT1Fonts-SS1.lha     text/font  808K 145+AT1Fonts Sans Serif-1 font disk
AT1Fonts-SS2.lha     text/font  756K 147+AT1Fonts Sans Serif-2 font disk
AT1Fonts-SS3.lha     text/font  751K 145+AT1Fonts Sans Serif-3 font disk
AT1Fonts-SS4.lha     text/font  539K 147+AT1Fonts Sans Serif-4 font disk
fonts_1.lha          text/font  581K 213+Adobe Type 1 fonts
fonts_2.lha          text/font  557K 213+Adobe Type 1 fonts
fonts_3.lha          text/font  353K 213+Adobe Type 1 fonts
ipa2.lha             text/font   36K  13+AdobeType1-Font: international phon. alphabet (betarelease)
PDFonts1.lha         text/font  750K 174 PD fonts for PageStream
PDFonts2.lha         text/font  665K 174 PD fonts for PageStream
startrekfonts.lha    text/font   89K 210+Adobe Type 1 fonts with afm/abf-files.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 390   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Greebo <[e-mail]83u>
Subject: Amazing Computing
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 14:29:47 +0000 (WET)
X-Organisation: Staffs University Funny Farm (School of Computing)

Thanks for your help, Andrew but...


... Aaaaarghh!

We (I think) don't get Amazing Computing in the UK... (At least, I've
never seen it... (I may be looking in the wrong places though, (don't
you just love nested brackets! (I do!))))!

Can one of you kind, warm-hearted, brilliant Imagineers out there in
Imagine-land mail me an idiots guide to lens-flare object.. I would
dearly love to do this..

Thanks!

John


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* John Hawksley     * "Do the Americans Realise that  *  Internal: CM3BCJH2   *
* 13C Brooke Court  *  the security of  their nation  *        BS88::SUAMGR   *
* Milton Grove      *  is in the  hands  of the same  *                       *
* Highfields        *  people  who  designed the ADA  * (It all goes into the *
* Stafford          *  Language?"                     *  same mailbox anyhow) *
*                   *                                 *                       *
* [phone] *      [e-mail]      *  S.U. VTX BBS Editor  *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*     To Err is Human -- To Really Foul Things Up Requires A VAX Cluster      *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 391   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 11:15:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fonts

Wuarhive has fonts in the amiga area.  They are creatively labeled
'fonts1' 'fonts2' and 'fonts3'.  They are about half a meg each and have
about 15-20 fonts in each archived file.

    Cyrus J. Kalbrener

        Digital_Cel

            "...To Render:  By Any Means Necessary!!..."


On Thu, 27 Jan 1994, Graeme Mc Donough wrote:

> In the 2.9 tutorial it says that you need a font of sorts, so that you can
> use these fonts in the turorial. I think it is a postcript font but i am
> not shure.
> I certainly don't have any of these fonts, but I shure would like to know
> where I could get hold of some of these..
> Can anybody help??
>
>
> /-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-SUN
> Graeme Mc Donough,
> INTERNET: [e-mail]  (postmaster)
>                                                                         ///
> Monash University                                                      ///
> Dpt of Earth Sciences                                                 ///
> Clayton, Melbourne                                                \\\///
> Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3168                                           \XX/
> PHONE: [phone]
> /-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-TWIRL
>
>
>





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 392   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
Subject: macromaker
Date:     Thu, 27 Jan 1994 14:14:40 -0500


Does anyone know where I can get the latest version of macromaker?  I checked
aminet, fish, & archie but no luck.

If someone could email me the complete files, I can UL it to aminet.

Jason K.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 393   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 12:12:53 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Imagine & HD probs
    <[e-mail]>


I wrote:

> OK in this area; I've rendered many thousands of frames to

Ooops.  I just noticed (from Lesk's reply to the same thing) that you
said:

> P.S. I'm using Imagine 2.9...

In which case my response is meaningless.

Sorry.  I'll learn to read some day, I promise...

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 394   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 11:57:22 -0800 (PST)
From: ANIEMANN <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Parnet = Twin Express
Autoforwarded: false
Importance: normal
Priority: normal
Sensitivity: Company-Confidential
Ua-Content-Id: 1181DAF91300
Hop-Count: 1

Twin express is not quite like parnet in that you copy files to and fro from
within its command line only interface. I don't believe you can use it from
within some other application as you can with parnet which basically becomes
just another device to send to. It's shareware and should be on some BBS. You
need a null modem cable to connect the serial ports of the PC and the Amiga.
 It does send the files quite quickly -I am using it at 115200 baud.
andy





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 395   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 11:18:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Imagine PC

This should probably go into the FAQ, if it isn't already.

This is all from personal experience.  If anybody else has easier ways to
do this stuff, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE post it to the list!!!

If you already have one version of Imagine, getting a second copy for the
other platform is US$100, last I checked.

Compatibility between Imagine on Amiga and PC:

Most of the problems are simply due to PC filename and pathname
conventions.  If you keep the filenames to the XXXXXXXX.XXX PC standard on
BOTH machines, you will have no problems on that score.

The pathname is a little tougher.  Since the slashes go the other way on
the PC, I know of no elegant way to transfer complete projects from one
machine to the other.  Maybe Impulse will address this in 3.0? (hint, hint).
I simply do all my rendering on my PC, since it's faster, and some
modeling on the Amiga.

If you simply HAVE to transfer projects, you'll have to go into the Action
editor and manually edit the path for each object, redirecting it to the
appropriate directory on the new machine.  Same story for the Brushes as
assigned in the Attributes requester.

You will also have to translate your brushmaps from IFF to
TIFF(uncompressed) format, since the PC version can't read IFF files.

Attributes transfer OK, but there's a known bug (fixed in 3.0) that drops
the RGB red values if you attempt to edit them in the Attributes requester.
Leave them alone, and your object will retain the correct colors you set on
the Amiga side.

I haven't run into any problems on geometry incompatibility, so I assume
they're 100% compatible there.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------






+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 396   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
    id <[e-mail]> with CCTORFC Thu Jan 27 20:31:29 1994
Date: 27 Jan 94 11:15:00 -0800
Subject: Re: Parnet = Twin Express

>Does anyone know whether parnet is an actual device?  (As opposed to
>just a set of programs, ala FTP).  In other words, can you "cd" to it?
>If I understand right (and maybe I don't), parnet is a device, but
>twinexpress is just an "ftp" like program(s), which is much less useful.

     Yes, you can send/receive data or run programs over parnet almost
     as if the two machines were one, with the restriction being
     the speed of parnet.  Render on one machine and grab the files to
     be processed on the other machine.  Yes, twin is just a data
     transfer program like "ftp".


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 397   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
    id AA17955; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 10:19:11 +1300
    Fri, 28 Jan 94 10:17:13 +1200
Date:          Fri, 28 Jan 1994 10:17:01 GMT +1200
Subject:       Re: Parnet = Twin Express
X-Pmrqc:       1
Priority: normal

> Does anyone know whether parnet is an actual device?  (As opposed to
> just a set of programs, ala FTP).  In other words, can you "cd" to it?
> If I understand right (and maybe I don't), parnet is a device, but
> twinexpress is just an "ftp" like program(s), which is much less useful.

No unfortunately it's not a device. It only seems to work from a
shell, accessing the other machine by using a ~ as a prefix to the
file name or command, eg. to transfer a file you issue the command;

    COPY FILE1 ~FILE1     on either machine

or to get a directory listing of the current dir on the remote
machine issue;

    ~DIR

It does multitask on the Amiga side though.

Cheers
Paul.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul Batten     Science & Computing Dept.    Christchurch Polytechnic
 [e-mail]           Christchurch      New Zealand
----------------------------------------------------------------------




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 398   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 12:39:06 -0800 (PST)
From: ANIEMANN <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Parnet = Twin Express
Autoforwarded: false
Importance: normal
Priority: normal
Sensitivity: Company-Confidential
Ua-Content-Id: 1181DB270400
Hop-Count: 1

imagine on the PC:
-Imagine seems to use more memory than it needs to render identical scenes on
the Amiga. With 14megs on the Amiga the scenes rendered with no problem. On
the PC with 16 megs parts would start missing after a number of frames were
rendered. I now have 32 megs in the PC and all is well.
-It's incredibly faster -the 486DX2 66 renders 10 times faster than my old
A3000 16. Stage and modeler views redraw at breakneck speed on large objects.
It's absolutely amazing what a difference speed makes to how you approach
the work you are doing.
 -It crashes VERY often on the PC. Usually when accessing a menu. "Abnormal
program termination" it will tell you. NO kidding! I'm relearning to save
OFTEN. However because of the immense speed increase I am finding that I
will put up with crashes and lousy OS. It runs only from DOS so you can't
switch to do something else like rename a file etc. Also run imagine with
/noxms set. It took us a while to get it going, and I had help from an MSDOS
fiddler.
-The best way I found to get texture brush maps to work properly
was to convert them all to Impulse's own format. That seemed to eliminate all
problems. I still haven't found a way around the animated brush map problem
though. It will not read them because they use a 4 letter extension number
after their name. It was quicker for me to just copy 45 simple planes
and rename the brush for each one and continue on. There must be a better
way.
-The big problem with designing on the Amiga and then using the object
and stage files on the PC is the damn backward slash! Every brush you load
in, every object, texture, etc. needs to have it's directory listing
modified. This was OK for a simple project but I soon gave up. I now use the
Amiga only for trying out something or for working on brush maps which I then
port over. I should look into Glen Lewis's program, which, if I remember
correctly will save stage files out as ascii. Then I could edit at least the
stage file easily. But you would still have to do every object, and if they
all have many brush maps -well it's a pain.
 -The easiest method of transferring files back and forth I figure now is an
external SCSI hard drive. Render to it on the PC, then just plug it into the
Amiga and use CrossDos to do whatever else to the images. I am at the moment
using Twin Express, which works quite well, but a 550 frame animation
including JPEGging with Pegger took basically overnight to transfer. I don't
think Pegger slowed this down at all. It seemed to be keeping up with the
files as they came in. Really nice program, although I kept constantly
losing its windows at first.
-I've never had the chance to compare the 486 to an 040 Amiga, but compared
to the 3000 -well.... I almost never use it anymore for rendering. I'm
wating with baited breath for Essence on the PC!!
andy






+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 399   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Subject: And now a word from our sponsor...
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 14:43:54 -0600 (CST)

Greetings all (again),

Now for more answers...

Andrew McDonald -
>...Imagine/PC's inability to co-exist ... I'd suggest avoiding DBLSPACE...

You sound a little paranoid man...  Lots of people are using DBLSPACE without
problems (ONLY use the DOS6.2 ver).  My system is far from "bare bones," and
Imagine works fine.

Craig Donaldson -
>PC ... UK dealer?

The only way to get the PC version is through Impulse.  There was some minimal
dealer sales of Imagine PC V2.0, but not a lot.

Joe Hart -
About the Dark Diamond...:

The diamond could be picking up color (or darkness) from behind the camera.
If you have nothing behind the camera, it'll probably get some of the world
color.  I didn't catch if you did this already or not - just an idea...

Lesk -

There is a Brush mapping bug in V2.9 so that you can't apply more than one
brush to an object - bust your object into multiple pieces and re-apply
the brushes to each object.
    A brush can be applied to a single (or any number) of specific faces
of an object by using subgroups.  There is a bug in the handling of
subgroups with textures.  I don't know if the same bug applies to the
brushes.
    On the number of triangles question - The number of triangles on an
object doesn't matter in flat areas.  If, however, you are doing a phong-
shaded cube, you will want small triangles at the edges of the cube.
Otherwise, the phong shader will start it's effective triangle bending
in the middle of the big triangles.

Nik - (and anyone else who may have sent in bug reports)...

We've gotten the bug reports.  Sorry for not replying to everyone who has
sent them in - really haven't had time to respond.  They are all currently
being cataloged and well do the best we can on them before V3.0.

Dear betrayed, (Brad Molsen) -
>Slice NOT!!!

Sometimes you can get un-slice-able things to slice after you fracture up
some of the objects faces - can make the object real complex real quick
though.

suggestions:

Slice with only two objects at once.

Try slice with only one object picked - I've gotten the error with this
before.  In V2.9 (I think) there is a "check object" menu item - use this
to verify the objects integrity.  A simple "merge" of a bad object may
fix the problem, or you may have to go point by point/edge by edge etc
to find the problem.

Byrt - On slice bug - having to re-arrange points/edges.  This is a big
problem with slice - sorry, there isn't a fix yet, but I've found that
doing the repair work in "newmode" perspective view is much easier than
the old quad view.

Some more notes on 3D stuff -

As a side project, I may write a utility to convert imagine's RGB8 3D
images into side-by-side stereo pairs - It may output to different
file formats.

I have written (but it's not publishable yet) a little gig that makes
stereo-grams (3D random dot pix) out of imagine pix (that's really
what the ZBuffer.itx texture was written for.  This may come out,
either with V3.0 or as a PD/Shareware gig.

I don't know how well the 3D stuff in Imagine is explained in the
books/manual.  If anyones interested I could post an explanation of
how the camera/prefs/objects should be set up to get decent 3D pic.
3D animations look pretty good too.

>X-specs modeller   :   I want a VR modeler...

John Haksley -

>[lens-flare in V2.0]

The only way to do lens-flare in V2.0 is by using partially transparent or
fog objects (make sure the fog object has depth, not just a single plane).
The results aren't that great - In V2.9 there is a texture that looks more
like a flare, but its still up to you to make it act like one.  V3.0 is still
slated to have lens flare in it.  (anyone notice that Babalyon5 didn't have
all the gaudy lens flares this time?)

>possible to make your own textures, and ... why are they so small?

You'll have to be able to program to build your own texture code, but beyond
that, Impulse is going to publish the necessary info for people to do their
own texture code (or contract texture writing ?!? hmmm.)
    The code is so small because the the textures are relatively small,
optimized, algorythms.  There is also no startup code and a minimum of
library code linked in.

marino -

>...problem with their HD and Imagine?

I was getting problems like this too.  It appears to have been this -
I have a progressive 040 card in and A2000 that, as it turns out, was
overheating on me.  I run the machine with the cover off now and am not
getting the prob anymore.  Imagine was the only program that was bringing
out the problem, but imagine is also the only program I use that works
the machine very intensively - rendering for a whole week, etc.
May not be your prob, but just something to look for.

steve -
On Amiga/PC cross platform compatability:  Imagine is does cross
platforms but there are some things to watch out for.  For example,
as you stated, you have to be careful about all path dependancies (objs,
attribs, textures, FXs, brushes, etc...).  The PC and the Amiga also
have different random number generators so pictures will not be the same
if you use randomized textures/fx in the anims.  Both of these platform
inconsistancies may be remidied by V3.0 - we're at least talking about
taking care of them.

thanx.....              sk....

PS - I'm looking for specific texture suggestions.  By specific I mean
things you are trying to do and can't or are having trouble with.
For example, I was doing a race track and needed dashed lines for the
track - I couldn't think of a good way to do it so I wrote a texture
for it.  Keep in mind that textures apply to the surface of objects, so
space filling things (like nebulous blobs) can't really be done with
textures.  I may also be able to help you get the results you need with
the textures that are already available.

:wq



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 400   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Greebo <[e-mail]83u>
Subject: Amazing Computing
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 14:29:47 +0000 (WET)
X-Organisation: Staffs University Funny Farm (School of Computing)

Thanks for your help, Andrew but...


... Aaaaarghh!

We (I think) don't get Amazing Computing in the UK... (At least, I've
never seen it... (I may be looking in the wrong places though, (don't
you just love nested brackets! (I do!))))!
Status: RO
X-Status: D

Can one of you kind, warm-hearted, brilliant Imagineers out there in
Imagine-land mail me an idiots guide to lens-flare object.. I would
dearly love to do this..

Thanks!

John


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* John Hawksley     * "Do the Americans Realise that  *  Internal: CM3BCJH2   *
* 13C Brooke Court  *  the security of  their nation  *        BS88::SUAMGR   *
* Milton Grove      *  is in the  hands  of the same  *                       *
* Highfields        *  people  who  designed the ADA  * (It all goes into the *
* Stafford          *  Language?"                     *  same mailbox anyhow) *
*                   *                                 *                       *
* [phone] *      [e-mail]      *  S.U. VTX BBS Editor  *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*     To Err is Human -- To Really Foul Things Up Requires A VAX Cluster      *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 401   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:54:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "JOSEPH F. HART" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: slice not

     I have found that if the objects involved in the slice have one or
more edges that intersect in 3d space, slice will have difficulty.
These intersecting edges do not have to be colinear. They need only
intersect at a single point to cause the difficulty.  Slice often leaves
behind extra edges which are not necessary in the final object.  The more
unnecessary edges left in the object, the greater the chance of one of
these intersecting another edge.  To see instances of this, try slicing
two simple objects whose surfaces intersect in a simple planar region
with few perimeter vertices.  You will most probably see extra edges whose
endpoints lie between the points of the perimeter vertices.  You will find
the edge fracture command and the join command for points to be most useful
for cleaning up these extra edges.  This should greatly facilitate the
use of slice.  Keep your objects as simple as possible consistent with
with what you intend to do.  Do not allow any extra edges or faces to be
left behind by anything if you can help it.
___________________________________________________________________
                  |         Internet: [e-mail]
Joe Hart          |     ///    Plink: OSS542
Niagara Falls, NY | \\\///  Ham call: WA2SND
                  |  \XX/   AMIGA - Computers for REAL MEN
===================================================================


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 402   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Scott Lundholm <[e-mail]>
Subject: Help ?!?
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 17:18:11 PST

Hi All,


     I'm am in need of some assistance from anyone who is successfully running
GigaMem with Imagine 2.0. I just received the program today, and got it
installed with out a hitch. It works great with Adpro, Dpaint4, and some other
sundry programs, but It is having some trouble with Imagine. My prefrences is
set to have it use real RAM first, then VirRam, I have a 3Meg buffer with
100K of cache, and it is using a 450Meg partition. The problem is an FP error
when rendering any scene that is too big to fit into RAM. I watch Imagine start
taking real RAM and VirRam for a while, then it starts to take chipram and
thats when the FP error occurs. In Imagine I have set the preferences so that
it should leave an amount of RAM larger than my total free chip RAM, but that
has not helped. My system is as follows:

Amiga 500 w/Mega Midget Racer 38 Special (68030 @38Mhz w/MMU & 68882 @50Mhz)
8Meg 32bit RAM and 1/2 Meg 32bit cache RAM that the rom is shadowed into
A MegaChip2000 chip RAM expansion for a total of 2Meg chip ram
Bodega Bay with 105Meg SCSI, 450Meg & 1Gig SCSI II drives

If anyone on the IML has had any experience with GigaMem and Imagine, please
E-Mail me directly (If there is enough info sent to me I will compile it and
put it up on wuarchive or post to the IML). Any help would be greatly
appreciated!!!!! Advice on setting it up to work with Imagine more effectivly
would also be appreciated!! Thanks in advance!

                                                   Scott Lundholm

 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | Amiga 500/030 at 38Mhz w/68882 at |    Email [e-mail]    |
 | 50Mhz, 8Meg of 32-bit RAM, Bodega |                 Memeber                |
 | Bay w/105M,450M, & 1G Hard Drives,|    Redwood Empire Amiga Users Group    |
 | HP PaintJet, 16" HP Programmable  |      3D Rendering Enthusiast and       |
 | Multisynch w/Flicker Free Video.  |  graphics fanatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  |
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 403   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 16:48:59 -0800 (PST)
From: [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
Subject: Re: Parnet = Twin Express
Hop-Count: 0

> -The big problem with designing on the Amiga and then using the object
> and stage files on the PC is the damn backward slash! Every brush you load
> in, every object, texture, etc. needs to have it's directory listing
> modified. This was OK for a simple project but I soon gave up. I now use the
> Amiga only for trying out something or for working on brush maps which I then
> port over. I should look into Glen Lewis's program, which, if I remember
> correctly will save stage files out as ascii. Then I could edit at least the
> stage file easily. But you would still have to do every object, and if they
> all have many brush maps -well it's a pain.

Or John Grieggs' ISL programs, which de-compile and re-compile binary stages,
and handle the full staging format.  Version 2.0 supports the full character
sets for both machines, also.

No PC version yet, but I'll probably make one one of these days - due to the
lack of registration response it's hard to assign it a very high priority.

_john




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 404   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
    (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0pPjiW-0007vrC; Thu, 27 Jan 94 22:17 EST
        (4.1/client/jimberau-1.0) id AA03340; Thu, 27 Jan 94 22:18:46 EST
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 22:18:46 EST
Subject: Clouds

     Does anyone know of a way to make good looking clouds with Imagine?
I don't mean 3-D clouds, just clouds ala VistaPro & Scenery Animator.
Might be a good idea for a new texture.  :)

   Thanx in advance,

        Nick


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 405   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 10:07:55 -0700
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Imagine on a Spectrum
X-Organization: VeriFone
X-Ps-Qualifiers:
 /FONT=Courier-Bold/LINES=66/LEFT_MARGIN=36/CALCULATE/TOP_MARGIN=36/BOTTOM_MARGIN=36
X-Envelope-To: email.sp.paramax.com!imagine
X-Vms-Cc: JEFF_W1

  Imagine will not work properly on a promoted Spectrum screen.
It dosen't crash but the display gets really trashed.  This is
due the the fact that Imagine writes directly to the display
memory (bypasses the OS graphic calls).

  Currently the EGS Intuition emulation software does not
support directly writing to display memory. :-(

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 406   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Subject: 3D Artists Wanted
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 19:12:14 PST

==========================================================================

                        COMPUTER GRAPHIC ARTISTS

    Terra Nova Development of Ventura, California has two positions avail-
  able for graphic artists experienced with Impulse's Imagine and other
  Amiga graphic tools.  These full-time positions require an unusual level
  of ability and offer salaries commensurate with an applicant's skill.
  In addition the company is offering an attractive profit sharing plan
  to all creative staff.

    Terra Nova Development's credits include `The Labyrinth of Time',
  a CD-ROM adventure game created entirely with 3D rendering software,
  available for MS-DOS, Amiga, CD/32 and CDTV*, and (soon) the Macintosh.
    Amiga World said about `The Labyrinth of Time':  "This kind of
  boundless invention is what CD-ROM is about - or should be about...."
    The company's direction is toward more and better products in multi-
  media entertainment and other fields across a wide spectrum of computer
  platforms.

       Applicants should send sample image disks and resume to:

                           Bradley W. Schenck
                         Terra Nova Development
                             P. O. Box 2202
                    Ventura, California   93002-2202

    * for ordering information on the CD32/Amiga CD/CDTV version of `The
    Labyrinth of Time', call Electronic Arts at (415) 572-ARTS (USA);
    [phone] (Australia); or [phone] (U.K.); USA dealers
    should call [phone].
 ________________________________________________________________________
| ______________________________________________________________________ |
||                                                                      ||
|| _______   ___    _______                    _______   ___    _______ ||
|| \  ___ \ / _ \  / __   / Bradley W. Schenck \  ___ \ / _ \  / __   / ||
||  \ \  \ / / \ \/ /  / /                      \ \  \ / / \ \/ /  / /  ||
||   \ \  / /   \/ /  / / Terra Nova Development \ \  / /   \/ /  / /   ||
||   / / / /\   / /\  \ \                        / / / /\   / /\  \ \   ||
||  / /_/ /\ \_/ /\ \__\ \  Ventura, California / /_/ /\ \_/ /\ \__\ \  ||
|| /_____/  \___/  \______\                    /_____/  \___/  \______\ ||
||                                                                      ||
||______________________________________________________________________||
|________________________________________________________________________|


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 407   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Ken Morton <[e-mail]>
Subject: changing paths (2.9pc)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 01:53:02 -0500 (EST)


    Hi.  I moved some things around (projects out of the imagine
folder, etc) and Imagine is being a pain about finding the files it needs
again.  Is there anyway to edit whatever file contains the paths to a
projects components?

            Thanks.

            Ken

BTW when will 3.0 for the PC be done?




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 408   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 09:34:55 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Ian Bale)
Subject: Re: Fonts

> I tried several of these and several other sites and they didn't work
> with the exception of one. I always get some kind of programming error.
> Is there something I am missing. I am beginning to think I have a bad copy
> of Imagine. Have you had any trouble?
>

I haven't got Imagine 2.9 (yet) so I can't vouvh that they work OK. But,
I have managed to convert almost all of them to CompuGraphic format using
TypeSmith, so I guess they are OK.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 409   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 09:58:30 +0000
From: [e-mail]

Hi Scott,
    I use Imagine 2.0 with GigaMem 3.0. I found to get Imagine to use
virtual memory it is required to change one of the advanced options in
GIgaMem Prefs. I think it is called MinAlloc or something like that. It
defines the minimum size of request that will be given virtual memory for
that process. I'm not sure what the best value would be but I turned it
down to the minimum which it either 10, 100 or 1000 bytes, can't remeber
which.
    The higher the number the quicker the render but the more actual
memory will be used. I'm not sure how Imagine requests its memory. Perhaps,
someone from Impulse would say what the best value for this would be and
how imagine asks for memory? I would prefer it if Imagine asked for it
in bigger chunks.

                    regards,

                    Stephen.

****************************************************************************
*Stephen J Gowdy                *A4000/040* High Energy Physics Group,     *
*Bitnet: GOWDY AT GWIA          *460 MB HD* Dept Of Physics & Astronomy,   *
*DecNet: 20075::GOWDY           *6MEG RAM!* University of Glasgow.         *
*InterNet: [e-mail]*It moves!* Tel: [phone] E:5894 *
****************************************************************************


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 410   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Ken Morton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Adobe Premier
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 07:47:00 -0500 (EST)


    I pick up Adobe Premier today (for Windows).  $179.  It'll import
numbered tiffs, fli/flc's, avi, quicktime, etc, and outputs avi, quicktime
or photostrip.  So far it's great.

    Can fli/flc's be played back at a set rate?  fps that is?  All the
players I've seen have had a seemingly arbitrary number for setting speed.

    Imagine 2.9 for the PC seems to output strange flc's.  They don't
jell well with Premier.  Importing tiffs is *wonderful* though.


            Ken


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 411   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:05:02 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Saffold)
Subject: Re: IML archives


Uucp> Archive #45 is ready (Dec '93), but I cannot upload it to wuarchive
Uucp> since
Uucp> it won't let me! Also, archive #44 has dissapeared from the
Uucp> /incoming/imagine directory. I will put it back in there once I can

Well, I have them all up to 42 it seems..  Could you also make sure
that #43 is also up?  I'm gonna (Some day :) go thru all the IML
archives to see what good info I have missed over the years..:)

 * Q-Blue 1.0* ...Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible.
--
*******************************************************************
*  Cuerna Verde BBS FidoNet Gateway  *  Data/Fax: [phone]  *
*  Pueblo, Colorado USA              *  FidoNet:  1:307/18        *
*******************************************************************


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 412   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
Subject: Re: And now a word from our sponsor...
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 9:27:24 CST

|
|PS - I'm looking for specific texture suggestions.  By specific I mean
|things you are trying to do and can't or are having trouble with.
|For example, I was doing a race track and needed dashed lines for the
|track - I couldn't think of a good way to do it so I wrote a texture
|for it.  Keep in mind that textures apply to the surface of objects, so
|space filling things (like nebulous blobs) can't really be done with
|textures.  I may also be able to help you get the results you need with
|the textures that are already available.

    How about draping (wrinkles and folds).  It would be sort of
    ripple like.  There are a number of books on the rules of draping
    available to art students.  Perhaps those rules could be used to
    create some nice effects for fabrics.  Trying to model it is
    terribly difficult.  It would be nice to animate it as well.

    I would define the anchor points of the drape on the surface and
    the direction that gravity is acting.  Perhaps two postions and
    then tween between them.  Might be a nice texture.

    Dale


        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 413   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 12:13:26 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)
Subject: Imagine Platform Rumors

Hi All;
        I was just noticing some information on unix AMIGA/PC and was
wondering about something someone said earlier about imagine moving to
other platforms. If it goes UNIX I'd bite. Does anyone know or can verify
what platforms OS etc. Imagine is going to include in it's repertoire.


                                        Thanks
                                         Lesk




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 414   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail]>
Subject: 2.9 Particle
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 11:51:00 PST


     Anybody got any clarification on particles in Imagine 2.9?  In the
detail editor, under new stuff, there is a particle setting.  Then, in the
action editor, there is a particle F/X.  I get the impression that the
particle setting in the detail editor establishes the type of particle the
object is made up of i.e. cube, tetrahedron, etc.  Then the F/X in the
action editor "particle-izes" the object into those particles?  I am
probably totally off here since I can't get the thing to do anything except
look like a variation of the Explode F/X from 2.0.  I tried using the
default settings in the Particle F/X for the distance traveled, but when I
go to the stage editor, my object is already flying apart.  I wanted to just
start with the object in its original form and then "particle-ize" over
several frames.  I haven't messed with this a whole lot yet so maybe I will
understand with more trial and error but I would appreciate any insight
anybody may have.  I would like to do something like that Popcorn anim on
the aminet except try to model a volcano with lava spurting up and falling
around the volcano.  If the notes that came with Imagine 2.9 are a preview
of what the documentation is going to be like for 3.0, let's hope Steve
Worley will be doing a 3.0 addendum to Understanding Imagine!


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 415   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 10:54:26 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)
Subject: Re: Slice's other problem

>content-type:text/plain;charset=us-ascii
>mime-version:1.0
>
>Slice also has another annoying problem that I don't see mentioned ever, and
>was wondering if it's me or does everyone have this problem with it?
>
>So far, I haven't had too much problems with doing the actual slice. It's
>after I get rid of all the crud I don't want, an otherwise smoothly shaded
>object now has distorted shading near the area of the slice. Kind of looks
>like rippling. After doing the slice, there are a lot of new edges & faces
>made. I wonder if that has something to do with it. Everything is set to
>Phong shading, and I still get this problem! The only fix I've been able to
>find is to individually manipulate points and edges to get the proper shading.
>I think we all know how old THAT can get! Is this problem also going to be
>addressed in V3.0?
>
>
>--
>@**************************************************************************@
>*                                      Religion is to Philosophy what      *
>*  Byrt Martinez                       Crafts are to Art                   *
>*  - Non-Christian  8^P                                                    *
>*    (Fred 12:45)                                                          *
>*                                                                          *
>*  [e-mail], [e-mail]                       *
>@**************************************************************************@
        Byrt, Funny you should mention this I just ran into it last night
while I was trying to cut a radius into the corner of a primative plane.
After finally making the cut I was left with the mottled radiused corner on
the plane. You have more patience than I do, I ended up loading another
plane and hiding the corner behind the curved surface that I was trying to
match the sliced radius to, since the camera wasn't going to see the
unradiused corner I decided to live with it. It would have been nice to
have been able to join the two planes with the radiused corner on the back
one matching the bend on the right angled plane in front!
                                        later,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Toasters don't burn toast. People burn toast."
                        Curator Seattle Toaster Museum

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 416   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 12:10:21 -0800 (PST)
From: ANIEMANN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Parnet = Twin Express
Autoforwarded: false
Importance: normal
Priority: normal
Sensitivity: Company-Confidential
Ua-Content-Id: 1181E30A1300
Hop-Count: 1

OOOPs! My comment on Pegger not slowing Twin Express down can't be true. I
just loaded 80 files across unjpegged and it took only a few minutes. All
machines are busy so can't give any real timing right now.
  Just ran into one problem with Pegger - It will not notice your accessing
a jpegged file over parnet. Usually it will "snoop" on a designated
directory and as soon as a program accesses that directory to get a file it
automatically decompresses it. Unfortunately not if the directory is
accessed via parnet.
andy






+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 417   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Imagine Platform Rumors
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 15:52:25 EST

>
> Hi All;
>         I was just noticing some information on unix AMIGA/PC and was
> wondering about something someone said earlier about imagine moving to
> other platforms. If it goes UNIX I'd bite. Does anyone know or can verify
> what platforms OS etc. Imagine is going to include in it's repertoire.
>
>
>                                         Thanks
>                                          Lesk
>
>
Impulses ads mention the SGI family as being available soon.

                    |
steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 418   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 15:32:06 -0600 (CST)
From: Cyrus J Kalbrener <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Imagine Platform Rumors

On Fri, 28 Jan 1994, Lesk wrote:

> Hi All;
>         I was just noticing some information on unix AMIGA/PC and was
> wondering about something someone said earlier about imagine moving to
> other platforms. If it goes UNIX I'd bite. Does anyone know or can verify
> what platforms OS etc. Imagine is going to include in it's repertoire.


    I've seen add saying that they'd be doing the SGI thang...





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 419   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 14:10:40 +0800
From: [e-mail] (Victor J. Martinez x6463)
Subject: Re: Imagine Platform Rumors
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII


>From: [e-mail] (Lesk)
>Subject: Imagine Platform Rumors
>Hi All;
>        I was just noticing some information on unix AMIGA/PC and was
>wondering about something someone said earlier about imagine moving to
>other platforms. If it goes UNIX I'd bite. Does anyone know or can verify
>what platforms OS etc. Imagine is going to include in it's repertoire.
>
>
>                                        Thanks
>                                         Lesk
>
>
I hear a rumour that Impulse was in the process of porting Imagine
to the Sgi platform. I asked about that rumour when I called
Impulse for my 2.9 upgrade. The person on the phone said that
it was NOT a rumour. He said that they were in the process of
porting to the SGI.

______________________________________________________________________________
|  |\_/|                                        //   | Victor J. Martinez    |
| \'o.0'/     Image, just an eyeless game.    \X/    | [e-mail]   |
| =(___)=                                            | VPE, Inc.             |
|    U                                               |                       |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 420   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
Subject: Macromaker ULed to Aminet
Date:     Fri, 28 Jan 1994 18:11:24 -0500


macromkr.lha has been ULed to wuarchive systems/amiga/aminet/new
When it gets processed it should end up in systems/amiga/aminet/gfx/misc

Jason K.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 421   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 02:28:25 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steve \"Vis\" Lopez" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Parnet = Twin Express
Hop-Count: 0



> -I've never had the chance to compare the 486 to an 040 Amiga, but compared
> to the 3000 -well.... I almost never use it anymore for rendering. I'm
> wating with baited breath for Essence on the PC!!

Well, I have compared them.  a 486DX2 66 and my A2000 '040 33.  I hate to
say it, but the IBM was faster.  Not by much tho...  My friends 486
tended to render the same projects about 2-3 seconds faster.  The slight
difference wasnt enough to worry about.  One bright note though, his IDE
drive is much slower than my SCSI2 and because of this, on anims, I was
faster.  Again, not by much, but I guess on a huge anim it might make a
difference.  I got into a discussion on this on a newsgroup, and
accidentally started a big flame war.  Funny thing was, I said pretty
much the same thing I said here.  I think the reason they were so close
may be the Amiga architecture and the custom chips helping out.  I am
pretty happy with the 040 though, my friend razzed me pretty hard about
the 2 second difference, so I set up a render, played a .mod file, and
logged into my dialup internet account at the same time.  Rather ticked
him off when he got to see multitasking....REAL multitasking....

P.s.  IBM'ers  Please dont flame me on this... We each use the machine we
like, they both have features the other doesn't, and we just use the one
that fits our applications better.  I dont want to see another IBM/Amiga
flame war.  It gets pretty ugly.  (I do have a IBM Bridgecard tho...)

     /----------------------------------------------\
    /    ///  Steve Lopez -> [e-mail]\
   /    ///    Student at -> Art Institute of Seattle \
  / \\\///        Program -> Audio & Video Production  \
  \  \XX/ `040'  Computer -> Amiga 2000 GVP040'33 DCTV /
   \                       : DSS8+ 9megs Flicker fxr  /
    \ "I can do that..."   : Midi DJ500c Supra 14.4k /
     \----------------------------------------------/
If nobody else uses Amiga, that's ok.
It just means I have the competitive edge.
:)





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 422   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Mike McCool)
Subject: Re: Parnet = Twin Express
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 08:49:56 -0800 (PST)

>
>
>
> > -I've never had the chance to compare the 486 to an 040 Amiga, but compared
> > to the 3000 -well.... I almost never use it anymore for rendering. I'm
> > wating with baited breath for Essence on the PC!!
>
> Well, I have compared them.  a 486DX2 66 and my A2000 '040 33.  I hate to
> say it, but the IBM was faster.  Not by much tho...  My friends 486
> tended to render the same projects about 2-3 seconds faster.  The slight
> difference wasnt enough to worry about.  One bright note though, his IDE
> drive is much slower than my SCSI2 and because of this, on anims, I was
> faster.  Again, not by much, but I guess on a huge anim it might make a
> difference.  I got into a discussion on this on a newsgroup, and
> accidentally started a big flame war.  Funny thing was, I said pretty
> much the same thing I said here.  I think the reason they were so close
> may be the Amiga architecture and the custom chips helping out.  I am
> pretty happy with the 040 though, my friend razzed me pretty hard about
> the 2 second difference, so I set up a render, played a .mod file, and
> logged into my dialup internet account at the same time.  Rather ticked
> him off when he got to see multitasking....REAL multitasking....
>
> P.s.  IBM'ers  Please dont flame me on this... We each use the machine we
> like, they both have features the other doesn't, and we just use the one
> that fits our applications better.  I dont want to see another IBM/Amiga
> flame war.  It gets pretty ugly.  (I do have a IBM Bridgecard tho...)
>
>      /----------------------------------------------\
>     /    ///  Steve Lopez -> [e-mail]\
>    /    ///    Student at -> Art Institute of Seattle \
>   / \\\///        Program -> Audio & Video Production  \
>   \  \XX/ `040'  Computer -> Amiga 2000 GVP040'33 DCTV /
>    \                       : DSS8+ 9megs Flicker fxr  /
>     \ "I can do that..."   : Midi DJ500c Supra 14.4k /
>      \----------------------------------------------/
> If nobody else uses Amiga, that's ok.
> It just means I have the competitive edge.
> :)
>
>
>
>


    Hey Steve,

        I see by the diplomatic tone of your post you've
dealt with the uncivilized side before.  Well, you want to see
flames, haul the Mac'sters into this debate--if debate isn't too
polite a word for what is always a discussion on one side and a
rationale on the other

        I fear the Mac'sters problem is the awsome
amount of money they've invested in their systems to gain a
comparable resolution and graphic capability.  "If it costs so
much more, it's got to be better.  Please God, it's got to be
better, or otherwise I really am a dope."

        That's why a Lexus is better than a Camry, even
though they're essentially identical mechanically--they cost
nearly three times as much!

        So keep being the good will ambassador, Steve.
Your last line tells it all.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 423   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
    id AA20554; Sun, 30 Jan 1994 00:44:54 +0200
Subject: Modeling problems
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 00:44:53 +0200 (EET)

 Hello imagineers,

 Could you give some hints of how to model detailed nonsymmetric things
with imagine.. I'm trying to make a shiny copper helmet like the ones
the ancient Roman centurions wore. My first attempt resulted in something
that looks more like an icehockey helmet :-)

 How would YOU start modeling a helmet with that nose-protector and nice
neckprotector and all that stuff on the sides?

 How about a feather or that mane they had on the top of the helmet,
how would you do that?

 -Juha


--
//[e-mail]  -Reality is for people who lack imagination.




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 424   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Mike McCool)
Subject: Soren: HELP!!!
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 12:29:48 -0800 (PST)

Hey Soren Wind,
    Excuse me for losing your address string and posting you
out in the open like this.  I recently got hold of your
attributes, and have had great fun with them.

    I was just wondering:  all those brushwrap attributes,
were they part of the Essence package, or are those some of your
own brushes?  I can't get any of them to work, and would love to
see them.  Like PERFECT SKY, for instance.

    And thanks, Soren, for sharing these with all of us.



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 425   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Subject: State of animation playback on PC.
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 94 18:00:52 PST

This is probably a bad time to ask this, what with the recent string of
PC vs. Amiga vs. Mac posts, but I'd like to know so here goes.

What is the state of animation playback on the Intel platform?

With 486s and accelerated VLB video cards becoming the norm, is there
any signs of say, a 256 color full-screen (any-res) animation of a
camera zoom-pan through a living-room scene at 12 frames-per-second?

For those of you with Amiga and PC experience,  Is there any sign of
playing the equivalent of a 3-bit 736x241 DCTV ANIM-7 animation on
any PC?

PLEASE! Do not start an Amiga vs. PC debate!  I want information, not petty
computer bashing!

Don DeCosta           |The nice thing about sanity is|  VM/Nomad2
[e-mail]   |you can lose it more than once|  Amiga/Imagine


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 426   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail] (Paul Marino)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 01:11:35 EST

Hello Imaginators!

I seem to be having a problem with transparent objects & fog in 2.9.

I have a ship model with a glass canopy that is flying through
a smokey cavern...

For some reason the fog affects everything BUT the glass canopy.

I've usually never had prob w/ this (not that I could remember)...
so maybe I came across, dare I say, a bug?

then again maybe I'm just a tad myopic and I'll realize my mistake
after I post...

Until then... Happy time Renderin'!

- Paul Marino ([e-mail])

P.S. I just d/l'ed the FreeForm3d demo... a must-have for anybody
        who does lots of modeling(like me!) and @ $59.90 its probably
        one of the best buys this year! Already at the top of my list
        as the next piece of s/w to purchase. (I am in no way affiliated
        with the Freeform3d's publishers.)




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 427   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 01:30:43 -0800 (PST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Parnet = Twin Express
        /R=galaxy/R=gems/R=email.sp.paramax.com/U=imagine/FFN=imagine/@mr.gov.bc.ca,
        "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>,
        "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Hop-Count: 0

Could you send me the same project to try on an newer machine? And we could
compare time, see if we can't beat the IBM?




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 428   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 08:05:50 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Brad Molsen)
Subject: Gone, but not forgotten!

        I know that this is a little late for 3.0 but, I've noticed that
not all the objects in my "Objects" directory are the cream of the crop. It
would be nice if while still in the Detail editor, after looking at or
creating a bad object I could "Delete" it right on the spot and not make a
list of the bad objects to be deleted after I leave the program , in a
shell or some directory management utility. I guess what I'm asking for is
the ability to delete with "extreme prejudice" so, the suckers completely
disappear from my directory while I am still in Imagine!
                                        later,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Toasters don't burn toast. People burn toast."
                        Curator Seattle Toaster Museum

Brad Molsen c/o  LORAL                          [e-mail]

13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500                 [phone]
Bellevue, Wa 98005                              Fax: [phone]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 429   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 13:16:04 MST
From: [e-mail] (Brian Ridout)
Subject: Re: Gone, but not forgotten!
      dated: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 08:05:50 -0800

Subject should be "forgotten, but not gone".  I have often thought
the same thing.  With our wonderful multitasking os, we should just
pop the screen back and just delete the files.  I, however, never do
this.  I go into the directories to clean up when I am short of space.
Then I do not remember which objects are the bad ones.  I guess this
would be a "nice to have".

Brian
********************************************************************
* Brian Ridout (Phillips Laboratory) (voice) 505-846-4349          *
* PL/WSAS                              (DSN) 246-4349              *
* 3550 Aberdeen Ave SE                 (FAX) 505-846-4374          *
* Kirtland AFB, NM 87117-5776       (E-mail) [e-mail]     *
********************************************************************


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 430   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 15:54:39 -0400 (EST)
From: ecorbin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: State of animation playback on PC

You should be able to play back 12 fps at 320x200 on just about any ole'
PC with VGA.  Try looking into DL and FLI players.  I don't know what
ImaginePC puts out in terms of animation files.  Try looking in the
simtel archives graphics section.

Earl C.
[e-mail]

PS-If you're using both kinds of machines (Amiga & PC), and the Amiga is
the rendering machine, you can convert IFF and ANIM files into .DL &
.FLI animations with MainActor.  It's in aminet gfx/edit






+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 431   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 13:10:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: State of animation playback on PC.

On Sun, 30 Jan 1994 [e-mail] wrote:

> This is probably a bad time to ask this, what with the recent string of
> PC vs. Amiga vs. Mac posts, but I'd like to know so here goes.
>
> What is the state of animation playback on the Intel platform?
>
> With 486s and accelerated VLB video cards becoming the norm, is there
> any signs of say, a 256 color full-screen (any-res) animation of a
> camera zoom-pan through a living-room scene at 12 frames-per-second?
>

I've been using a 486DX2-66 to render animations to .FLC format at 640x480
resolution, and been getting decent playback speeds.  As with any playback
from RAM, the frame-to-frame deltas really determine your best speed, so
if you're careful with camera movement you can get MUCH better than 12fps.

As an example, I've got a 90-frame flyby of the NCC-1701D zipping past
Mars.  It plays back from RAM fast enough that I set the player for a
delay level of 5; 0 just BLURS across the screen, and anything from 1-4 is
still a little quick for the human eye.

I've also done a FLC of the 'Universal' logo, where the camera pans to
folow the letters as they spin around the Earth.  Even playing back from
the hard drive, I'm getting at LEAST 12fps on a 640x480 screen.

Remember, too, that the DPS PAR is due out RSN for the PC, and there's at
least one other hardware vendor with a similar product.  Inexpensive
platform, faster rendering, and real-time playback direct to broadcast
standard VTRs.  Sounds like a good recipe for cheap, high-quality animation.

Don't chuck your Amiga.  Just get a cheap PC to use as a rendering engine!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------







+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 432   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Ken Morton <[e-mail]>
Subject: fps (Imagine PC)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 18:31:06 -0500 (EST)


    Hi.  I was playing back an animation I had just rendered when I
hit F1 by accident.  The thing was making ablur on my screen.  So then I
messed about with other keys and found the + and - keys modify fps.  So
I dug out my stopwatch and timed them.  Standard playback was 12 fps, then
15, 20, 30, 60, and 'blur', 'blur'. :)

    I was pretty impressed.

    Are these consistent and set frame rates?  Or did I just luck out
with my little test here?
    Also, what is out there that will let me play back 640x480
animations (8-bit or higher)?  And create them too, if Imagine can't.

    BTW this is with Imagine 2.9 on a 60 MHz p5 with a PCI video card.


                Thanks

                Ken



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 433   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Scott Lundholm <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gigamem, Imagine, and Thanks.
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 19:57:40 PST

Hi All,

     I want to thank everyone for responding to my question about configuring
GigaMem to work with Imagine. I REALLY appreciate the help! Bellow is some of
the info that was sent to me in response, and the senders name. Some of the
info is a little redundant, but complete. My comments and setting based on
the information are interspersed throughout and at the end.

*********************************GigaMem Info*********************************

Set it up to use Virtual Memory FIRST.  This will avoid Imagine's use of
ChipRAM in preference of VM.

       (This works as long as the Advance setting for minimu ram size
       is set low enough. At 10K, the default, I was still using up
       real ram and fast-ram. Imagine makes MANY small writes to
       memory, which if smaller than the minimum size, will be placed
       into real ram. SEE BELLOW).

I have found that Imagine may slow down the rendering speed by 10% to 50%;
that was with a scene that ate 17MB of VM in a 1MB buffer.

       (I have found that on my system I have been getting about a
       3-8% slowdown on average scenes, I do not have any numbers
       yet for the BIG scene. SEE BELLOW.)

The value referring to RAM is (unless a difference in versions proves me
wrong) the minimum size of dynamic memory allocations that will be
satisfied with VM rather than real memory.  Setting this value to a small
value makes more (small) allocations go to VM, setting it to something
large will cause only large allocations to go to VM, thereby keeping
smaller ones in Fast RAM.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann
 ( )  [e-mail]

        I use Imagine 2.0 with GigaMem 3.0. I found to get Imagine to use
virtual memory it is required to change one of the advanced options in
GIgaMem Prefs. I think it is called MinAlloc or something like that. It
defines the minimum size of request that will be given virtual memory for
that process. I'm not sure what the best value would be but I turned it
down to the minimum which it either 10, 100 or 1000 bytes, can't remeber
which.
       (Under advanced settings I have changed my value for minimum
       ram size to 4096. I did this by running different scenes that
       I have and when one would crash due to RAM shortages, I would
       lower the value and try the scene again. The value of 4096
       is currently the larges value that will allow me to run all
       my scenes. As I go smaller the rendering time goes up.)

         he higher the number the quicker the render but the more actual
memory will be used. I'm not sure how Imagine requests its memory. Perhaps,
someone from Impulse would say what the best value for this would be and
how imagine asks for memory? I would prefer it if Imagine asked for it
in bigger chunks.

Stephen J Gowdy
InterNet: [e-mail]
***********************************End Info***********************************


     By using all the above info, I have set my GigaMem Prefs to reflect
the following:

     3Meg Buffer, 100k of cache, I am utilizing a 450Meg drive as the Vmem
space (all 450Meg), Under advanced settings I have set the minimum ram size
to 4096 (SEE ABOVE).

Using these settings I have been able to run all my current projects and my
Gigamem test project called BIG. I have loaded enough objects (More than I
can count) to use about 440Meg of Vram, including brush maps (Big world). I
plan to render the project this coming week (month or year depending on
rendering time!?!?!?!) I will post the results when and if my computer ever
finishes the render. Thanks again to everyone for responding. Take care,
and keep rendering!!!!!!!!!!

                                              Scott Lundholm

 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | Amiga 500/030 at 38Mhz w/68882 at |    Email [e-mail]    |
 | 50Mhz, 8Meg of 32-bit RAM, Bodega |                 Memeber                |
 | Bay w/105M,450M, & 1G Hard Drives,|    Redwood Empire Amiga Users Group    |
 | HP PaintJet, 16" HP Programmable  |      3D Rendering Enthusiast and       |
 | Multisynch w/Flicker Free Video.  |  graphics fanatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  |
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 434   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Another 2.9 bug.
Date:     Tue, 1 Feb 1994 00:09:27 -0500

Is this a bug in 2.0?  I know if you add a perfect sphere, the go into
pick points(in 2.0), then you can't get out unless you quit Detail.

I find it annoying that I can't rotate a ground object so that it stands
up vertically or on an angle.  I could adjust everything else so that it
looks rotated but what if I have two grounds and want two intersecting
infinite planes.

Jason K.
Cybernetic Expressions


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 435   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 21:27:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: fps (Imagine PC)

On Mon, 31 Jan 1994, Ken Morton wrote:

>     Also, what is out there that will let me play back 640x480
> animations (8-bit or higher)?  And create them too, if Imagine can't.
>
The PLAYFLC.EXE player utility included with Envisage 3D will playback
640x480 FLCs from RAM, and will play longer FLCs from the HD.  Envisage
also includes utilities to dissassemble, edit and assemble FLIs and FLCs
from TGA and GIF files.

I've had better luck with playing FLCs from Envisage than from Imagine,
and have successfully assembled frames rendered from Imagine into an
Envisage FLC.  Just MHO, but I like the way their animation tools work.
The animations I've built in Imagine just won't play on some PD or
commercial FLC players.  Did Impulse use an odd FLC format?

Byte by Byte: [phone]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 436   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 01:19:39 PST
From: 01-Feb-1994 0407 <[e-mail]>
Subject: state of animation playback on PC


>PS-If you're using both kinds of machines (Amiga & PC), and the Amiga is
>the rendering machine, you can convert IFF and ANIM files into .DL &
>.FLI animations with MainActor.  It's in aminet gfx/edit

 ADPro 2.5 supports FLC, and FLI animation formats. Also supported with
 the PCP pack are SGI, Alias, and Wavefront (both RLA & RLB varieties.
 A new program called CineMorph is included which converts streams of
 images between 24 frame per second film style and 60 field per second
 video style time bases. This si interesting because i don't own a clone
 but now I will be able to address that market easier.
                                bill
    BTW what is the full path to Aminet ?
/**
    just a reminder these ravings are mine and don't reflect
    the ideals of my employer in any way
                                    //


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 437   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 01:44:18 PST
From: 01-Feb-1994 0437 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: fps (Imagine PC)

>The PLAYFLC.EXE player utility included with Envisage 3D will playback
>640x480 FLCs from RAM, and will play longer FLCs from the HD.  Envisage
>also includes utilities to dissassemble, edit and assemble FLIs and FLCs
>from TGA and GIF files.

 Envisage is kind of pricy isen't it ?

>I've had better luck with playing FLCs from Envisage than from Imagine,
>and have successfully assembled frames rendered from Imagine into an
>Envisage FLC.  Just MHO, but I like the way their animation tools work.
>The animations I've built in Imagine just won't play on some PD or

 It will be interesting to see if ADPro will work well in these instsnces.
 I'd guess it would

 >Byte by Byte: [phone]
 I remember them when the only platform they supported was the Amiga. Does
 Envisage support their old formats ?

/*
here my four lines

Bill leimberger Nashua N.H.
                                    */


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 438   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 01:36:15 PST
From: 01-Feb-1994 0420 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: State of animation playback on PC.


Doug Kelly writes

>Remember, too, that the DPS PAR is due out RSN for the PC, and there's at
>least one other hardware vendor with a similar product.  Inexpensive
>platform, faster rendering, and real-time playback direct to broadcast
>standard VTRs.  Sounds like a good recipe for cheap, high-quality animation.

>Don't chuck your Amiga.  Just get a cheap PC to use as a rendering engine!
    I still have my 40mhz 030 2000 just sitting on the shelf. Not
 because I own a PC but a 4000. I have Parnet working with them. I guess I
 could set up identical projects and have the 4000 render the even frames
 and the 2000 the odd. I know the PC is faster but in effect when you run
 Imagine on the PC you have a dedicated renderer. Any dedicated system
 should be faster. However there is more to animation than rendering. While
 the PC can render faster The Amiga allows you to take the results and do
 other post process work using Dpaint, ADPro ect. I have gigamem, Dopus,
 and a host of other proceses running in the background. I can use the ADPro
 Anim loader to merge the even and odd frames while the rest of the Images are
 rendering. Time is revelent and I feel the Multitasking if used properly
 can offset rendering times. Of course those rare occasions where you need
 the rendering speed to meet a deadline(which many may not ever see) A faster
 rendering engine is great to have. I really should put some effort into
 dusting off the 2000! Problem is I need more memory for it. Stold the
 GVP scsi, memory to put in the 4000. How would this compare to say using
 A PC ?
                                bill


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 439   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 22:38:40 +1100 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another 2.9 bug.


On 31 Jan 1994, Soren Wind wrote:

>
>
> Ohh nooo..
>
> I Just found another bug in Imagine V2.9
>
> if you in the detail editor, add a ground, and select pick points onm the
> ground, you are not able to return, to pick objects or other pick/drag menu
> items.....
>
> All you can do with the object is to quit Imagine...

Just tested this in 2.0 and it is there too ! Still, I never thought of
using Pick points mode on the ground object. After all, it should not be
possible, and changing things doesn't seem to have an effect when rendered.

Still, a bug it is.

Nik.
[e-mail]



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 440   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 08:57:55 EST
From: David Watters <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ford/chevy/mopar...er,.Amiga/Mac/IBM


> It's just a tool - who cares what the other guy is using if that tool
> will not work for me (or if I don't have the money to buy it).

It does matter.  It always has and always will because the popularity of the
machine decides what software will be available.

eg:  Everyone admits that the Amiga had a little more vision early on when it
came to desktop video, but look which machines have more and sometimes better
software; Mac and IBM.

Obviously it matters who or how many others are using it.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 441   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 07:23:23 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: simple tree animation u/l'ed


I uploaded a simple animation of a tree (which was generated in Vertex
2.0) to aminet:

    gfx/anim/VTree.lha

The archive contains two files:

    README.VTree   - readme file
    ANIM.VTree     - 640x400, 119 frame anim, single palette, anim5,
                     SUPER72 (but you can show it in any mode with res
                     >= 640x400)

I just set up a simple observer path "orbiting" the tree so you could
get a good feel for what it looks like in 3D.  There is no background or
anything like that - just a single tree floating in empty space.

Also, I'm sure you can get it to look better by adding some cool Essence
texture maps, etc.  This just shows the shape.  This one has the "twist"
parameter cranked up a bit to get a sort of gnarled effect.  (Which
looks cool, IMHO).

I think the tree object itself (which I did not include; go buy Vertex
if you want to make cool trees) had about 3500 polygons.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 442   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 07:35:59 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: fps (Imagine PC)


>     Are these consistent and set frame rates?  Or did I just luck out

It rather depends :-).  Depends on:

  1. The frame/frame delta sizes of your anim
  2. How "noisy" the anim is
  3. What format you store the anim in (FLI/mpeg/etc)
  4. How fast your hardware is (VLB helps quite a bit).

On my 486/66 with a VLB card, I seem to have no trouble doing 30 FPS at
640x400, with big deltas.  (But I don't have enough RAM in the PC to do
it for very long).  That's with an animation someone gave me which has
its own player combined with the anim in an executable file.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 443   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 01 Feb 94 01:27:26 CET
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)
Subject: Mag Glass



Will someone tell me, or uuencode to me in E-mail, how to make a magnifying
glass in Imagine... ?

   _:        Sren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
   |A2000/030/882/9MB/345MB/33Mhz+SVGA /_______\                    |
   .                                                                .

... Do not remove this tag!


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 444   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 07:40:12 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Gone, but not forgotten!


> pop the screen back and just delete the files.  I, however, never do
> this.  I go into the directories to clean up when I am short of space.
> Then I do not remember which objects are the bad ones.  I guess this

Using a snap commodity (try "Powersnap 2.2"), you can cut filenames from
Imagine's file requester.  Powersnap will save a history of these - as
many as you tell it to.  You can either blip over to a shell window and
delete them right then, or just let Powersnap keep the history list
until you want to delete the files later at your leisure.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 445   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 08:05:07 -0700
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fog & Xparency Probs


> I seem to be having a problem with transparent objects & fog in 2.9.

> For some reason the fog affects everything BUT the glass canopy.

Try taking your glass canopy and extruding it a small distance in a
direction normal to the current plane.

  - steve


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 446   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 09:25:51 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)
Subject: Re: fps (Imagine PC)

>        Hi.  I was playing back an animation I had just rendered when I
>hit F1 by accident.  The thing was making ablur on my screen.  So then I
>messed about with other keys and found the + and - keys modify fps.  So
>I dug out my stopwatch and timed them.  Standard playback was 12 fps, then
>15, 20, 30, 60, and 'blur', 'blur'. :)
>
>        I was pretty impressed.
>
>        Are these consistent and set frame rates?  Or did I just luck out
>with my little test here?
>        Also, what is out there that will let me play back 640x480
>animations (8-bit or higher)?  And create them too, if Imagine can't.
>
>        BTW this is with Imagine 2.9 on a 60 MHz p5 with a PCI video card.
>
>
>                                Thanks
>
>                                Ken


WOW! A P5 that really oughta cruise.... How is your card can you go between
high and lo res etc. I am running an amiga 1200 and have the ablility to
switch at the click of a button to my composite out and record. It is
really nice for most of the applications I am doing around here. Is 2.9 as
buggy on your system as it is on my 1200?

I sure wish motorola had something to compete with that p5 of yours
although there are risk boards that can be plugged in they still need
recompiling etc. to be done.

        Hope to see some of those anims of yours on the net soon you oughta
be there in minutes.......



                                Render Ho!
                                   Lesk




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 447   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 08:29:37 MST
From: [e-mail] (Brian Ridout)
Subject: Re: ford/chevy/mopar...er,.Amiga/Mac/IBM
      dated: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 21:42:23 -0500 (EST)



    I remember all the guys at the gas station growing up, arguing vehemently
    for their favorite Ford/Chevy/Mopar, and which was the fastest. I'll never
    forget that they all drove primer gray cars with loud exhausts and not
    much under the hood.

    I'm really bored with the computer-as-an-extension-of-the-penis syndrome,
    every person who makes fun of someone for defending their choice of
    hardware is just as foolish.

    It's just a tool - who cares what the other guy is using if that tool
    will not work for me (or if I don't have the money to buy it).

    I expect some juicy, self-righteous replies, so please, don't disappoint.


I was just thinking the same thing yesterday.  I am guilty of buying more
then necessary thinking that if i could just get the best software and
the fastest machine then my art will be great.  Meanwhile others are taking
their old SW and machines and creating unbelievable art.

"Only your imagination makes it possible"

Brian
********************************************************************
* Brian Ridout (Phillips Laboratory) (voice) 505-846-4349          *
* PL/WSAS                              (DSN) 246-4349              *
* 3550 Aberdeen Ave SE                 (FAX) 505-846-4374          *
* Kirtland AFB, NM 87117-5776       (E-mail) [e-mail]     *
********************************************************************


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 448   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Subject: PPhallic ramblings...
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 10:12:26 -0600 (CST)

Greetings,

Andrew McDonald:
>I'm really bored with the computer-as-an-extension-of-the-penis-syndrome...

Hey Man! - My computer is my penis!... Damn, hard drive just went down again...

Jason K.:
>...perfect sphere ... pick points ... can't get out....
>... can't rotate a ground object ...

That's correct - objects that aren't primatives are optimized and really can't
be edited.  Being able to get into points mode is a bug.

Steve:
>On Mon, 31 Jan 199, Andrew McDonald wrote:
>
>> I'm really bored with the computer-as-an-extension-of-the-penis syndome,
>>...
>>
>> It's just a tool - who cares what the other guy is using if thattool
>>...
>...
>I'm pretty happy with what I've got. Not to say that I wouldnt like a
>few of the things that the IBM'ers have, like 10 millin places to buy
>peripherals, A DECENT SATELLITE TRACKING PROGRAM  ....
>And there are things that my IBM friends envy me for having  True
>multitasking for one.  But...  They
>dont want my problems...  The occaisonal GURU, Little software support,
>CONSTANT RIDICULE from mac and IBM users...  And I dont want their
>problems.  ....

Um...Steve? ... are you talking about your computer or your penis?
(Sorry, couldn't help myself)

bip...               sk...



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 449   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 01 Feb 1994 09:55:59 -0800 (PST)
From: ANIEMANN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Parnet = Twin Express
Autoforwarded: false
Importance: normal
Priority: normal
Sensitivity: Company-Confidential
Ua-Content-Id: 11820A773900
Hop-Count: 1

Lopez - you mention that you have compared a 486 to an 040. The 486
rendered 2-3 seconds faster. How long was the total render time? If it was
20 minutes then 2 seconds faster is not much, however out of 10 seconds it
would be a lot.
thanks, andy





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 450   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: [e-mail]
Subject: 33300 lines of drivvel from Scott...
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 09:45:54 -0600 (CST)

Greetings...

WARNING: This is a huge post - My apolagies if its wasting anyone's space.

Doug Kelly writes:
>If you already have one version of Imagine, getting a second copy for the
>other platform is US$100...

The price is actually dependant on which version you have - The only way to
get an accurate quote of what it's gonna cost you is to call Impulse.
Besides the upgrade rate, there is also competitive upgrade prices, etc.
 - nuff said...

On the subject of problems with path extensions in cross-platform projects
(aka. the back/forward slash hell):  One way to get around this is by the
creative use of Assign and Subst commands.  On the Amiga, set up Assign
commands in your "user-startup" file so that you can get at the parts of
your project you need. - BUT, make sure you use a single letter (like on
a PC - h:, i:, etc) for the logical name.  Now, when you load/save objects/
textures/pix/FX use the the Assign name instead of a path.  On the PC side
use the Subst (Substitute) command to substitute drive letters (the same
letters you used on the amiga) for the paths where you will be getting
all your project parts from.  I know this is a pain in the ass, but it
works.

Note: In V2.0 and V2.9 there is no way to modify the path associated with
an FX.  This suggestion may help avoid this problem.

Jason B Koszarsky:
>Would it be possible to modify fog with a texture ... [for] trees ...
>[or] other gasseous type clouds.

Fog objects, just like regular objects, are just 2D surfaces in 3D space
so you can't get the space filling look you need for trees, etc.  We have
talked about some form of Constructive Solid Geometry objects to do the
effects you are looking for, but there is nothing in there for that yet.

However, you can still get some very cool stuff happening by applying
color textures to fog objects (there may be some fog specific textures
in V3.0).  I've done some really cool nebulous/gaseous ghosts and also
some cool diminishing light beam effects by using the existing textures
and fog.

About Trees:  There are some new textures that can be applied to transparent
objects to make tree branches/bramble with a minimum of triangles.  This
isn't the answer to perfect trees, but it is a way to make some extra
trees to add to your scene, and they look pretty good as long as you
aren't zoomed in on their detail.

>... shrink-wrap textures ... [that] conform to the object's surface.

The problem with this is that the textures are too simple and know
very little about their surroundings.  I've got some ideas, but am
unwilling to commit to anything in that direction yet.  Besides the
three texture application types you mentioned, there are also several
that apply themselves randomly through space (don't care what shape the
object they are on is - DinoSkin/WormVein) and some that only care about
the relationship between object surface and camera (CndyAppl, and a new
one called Fakely.itx that does Oakely sunglasses and total-internal-
reflection).

GreG -
>.... honeycomb ....

Ok.

>... adding filter value to existing textures ....

Ok.

Nick-
>... good looking clouds with Imagine?

I use FilNoiz2.itx (Filter Noize 2).  Apply the texture to a white ground,
set the texture's filter values to whites and blacks (doesn't really matter
which ones you set to what), mess with the noise parameters to try and get
the shapes you want, and set the scaling parameters to something big and
more equivalent than the defaults (maybe 200x200x200).  Put the textured
ground up in the sky and tweek the numbers until it looks like what you
want.  This won't give you cumulo nimbus type clouds, but will do a light
whispy, hazy, overcast look. (to do smoke, copy the cloud-plane, and paste
the copy a little below (underneath) the cloud-plane.  Now change the color
of the lower plane to a gray and you got smoke).

Ken:
>...BTW when will 3.0 fo the PC be done?

ah.err...um.....the same time the Amiga version is.  Things are getting
close, shouldn't be much longer - (My apolagies for the wishy-washy answer,
this thing has taken a lot longer than any of us ever anticipated, and we
want it to be really (REALLY) good when we let it go.)

Don't get pissed at me and call me a liar if it doesn't happen, but the
feeling around here is that V3.0 should be done by March - It may take a
little bit longer to get the manual finished.

RE: Fonts:
 - There is some problems in Imagines PostScript interpriter.  If I remember
right, it may have something to do with a modified encoding vector (if you
care).  Adobe's docs on PS file formats really suck.  If any of you know of
another source for good info on writing a PostScript interpreter, I would
appreciate the tip.  - thanx.

Lesk:
>... how about galaxies?

Galaxies, huh? - I'll try it...


Cyrus:
> ... map Diffuse luminance (brightness) levels, and map specularity ....
>Will surface options like these be available for 3.0?

The specularity and brightness levels are supposed to accessable to the
procedural textures (I should get the hooks next week - can't wait!), but I'm
not sure about mapping them with regular brushes - I'll bring it up.

About your address problem:  Sorry, I can't help with that - I don't do any
of that stuff.  Give us a call (612-425-0557) and verify that we've got the
right address and everything.  I will post the news as soon as V3.0 is
shipping - you could call then and see if you can come and pick it up.

SteveZ:
>...texture suggestion ... Water droplets.  Like on cold Coke bottles...

Here's how I've done this - first, though, an explanation of why water drops
won't work that well as a texture:  The refraction effects that water drops
have on the surface of a pop can is dependant on the actual thickness of the
drop.  A texture doesn't actually add any thickness or bumps with real depth
to a surface, it only changes the way the surface looks, giving the
impression of bumpiness.

Ok, how to do it:  take your pop can, copy and paste it in the same spot,
and scale one up just a tiny bit bigger than the other.  Brush map the
can's label onto the smaller of the two cans (also set up the can's
spec/hard).  The bigger of the two cans is going to be the water droplets.
Make that can totally  transparent, set the index of refraction to that of
water (1.5 I think - I don't have space in my head for things I can look up
when I need them), and give it a white specularity and hardness of about
200 to 255.  Add DinoSkin to the larger can, set the scaling to make very
small drops, reduce the values in the noise functions so the bumps won't be
kinked up so much, put a negative number in one of the color boxes (to turn
off the coloring), and set the dispersion to a small number (like .1, maybe
even less) to turn off most of the bumps.  You may want to experiment with
the DinoSkin parameters on a non-transparent can to get the size /
distribution you want.  To finish off the look, make (actually build
objects) several small water drops and stick them on the can.  The drops
you build should be the bigger water droplets on your pop can.  That way
the errors in the DinoSkin refraction are not seen because your eye is
attracted to the bigger drops.  You can also animate the bigger drops for
more effect.

Dale:
>How about draping (wrinkles and folds).

I've worked on some Wrinkle textures (they will probably be released with
V3.0), but haven't been to impressed with how they look.  I've had the
best luck actually modeling the draped/wrinkle look by actually pushing
points around.  Let's see if I can explain the process I use to do a
draped table cloth.... Start out with the flat object (like a flat piece
of fabric for a table cloth).  Set up the part of the fabric that is
touching the table with enough faces around the table edge to get the
phong shading to look correct after you bend the cloth.  The parts of
the table cloth that hang down the sides of the tabel have to be built
so that every other triangle that hangs down has one edge alligned to the
edge of the table and that edge's opposite point on the outside edge of
the cloth (every other triangle points out like teeth from the table to
the edge of the cloth).  The remaining triangles around the edge are
inverted to those just mentioned (like teeth pointing from the cloth's
edge in towards the table).  (Sorry, this isn't really that difficult,
it's just tough to explain in text.)  Now pick all the points that make
up the edge of the cloth and using move and scale, drag them down and
under the table like they would be if hanging from the table top.
Use Hide points to make all the table top points go away (you should
only have the points that make up the edge of the cloth after this).
Using Drag Points, just randomly push the points that make up the
bottom edge of the table cloth around to make folds and wrinkles.
That's it - render it.  Should give you some ideas for doing more
detailed wrinkles and for animating them (using states - states now
has spline interpolated morphing - looks great, REALLY great!).

-BiL-:
>Have the transparency/fog/overlapping cancel out been fixed?

Not yet, but should be by V3.0.

>[On 3D stereo grams] ... have you seen the new ones that use little brushes
>instead of of random dots?

yeah, just recently - I was going to do some experimenting with that but
haven't gotten to it yet.

>[On 3D imagine pics and XSPECS] ... Is there a way to make the objects
>appear to come out of the screen?

Yes.  I'll write up a doc on how this stuff works and post it soon.  For
now, I'll give you this much - The position of the tip of the camera's Y
axis is the position of the screen.  To get objects to come out of the
screen at you, put the camera in front of the object and Scale the axii
until it extends beyond the object.  You may have to adjust the eye spacing
until this is comfortable for you - I'll be more specific later...

>Will textures be 'tackable'...?

I think that was in V2.9 (I could be wrong) - It is in the stuff that I am
using now.  Look for the box that says "Lockstate" in the texture requester.
Your object has to be a states object, and there may be some problems
(although I haven't seen any) getting bumpy textures to lock.

>.... sponge,...

Try Peened.itx with coloring shut off and the Bump Adjust cranked way up.
Thanx for the other suggestions.

Lesk:
>... imagine moving to other platforms.

We've discussed porting to SGI.  We've got a little Indy and it's slower
than sh*t.  It would be nice to work with and Indigo 2 or something, but
they are very expensive and SGI doesn't offer any deals to developers -
their loss.  We may eventually look into it again, but right now our only
concern is getting V3.0 out o'here.  Who knows, with the speeds of the DX3
and Pentium stuff (and what ever is going to be coming out in the near
future), we may just stick to the Amiga/PC plan.

Ted Setham:
>... clarification on particles in Imagine 2.9? ...

Close, but no cigar.  In the detail editor, Particles lets you particlize an
object (turn each face into a particle).  It also lets you select the type
of particle to use.  The particle FX is an extension of the explode FX.  The
particle FX will work with particles or with just faces.  It does explodes
so that the faces will fall and bounce and blow away and spray and rain,
etc.  If I remember to, I'll write up a help file for using the particle FX.
It is very powerful, but the requester is tough to understand.  Note:  If
you chose spheres for a particle shape in the detail editor, they will be
replaced by crappy looking dodecahedrals in scanline - perfect spheres in
trace though.

>If the notes that came with Imagine2.9 are a preview of what the
>documentation is going to be like...

Don't worry, we've got an author who's done some of the Waite Group books
doing the V3.0 manual.  I've seen some of the roughs and it looks excellent.

Chris:
>[General whining about B5 and lens flares]

Look in a photography book, lens flares ARE the "lens reflections" that show
up as artifacts in the shape of the camera's iris.  What was in B5 was light
haze caused by dirty lenses and/or the film being pushed to far by an very
hot light source.  Take a pill and stop being so defensive.  The "terms" are
already defined. (nuff said, flaming down....)

Bill Toninato:
>...how long have you been with Impulse?  I believe I spoke to you right
>after you started...

Greetings, I've been at Impulse 1 Year as of the beginning of the year.  I
think I remember you from and Amiga SIG meeting at Specialit's - Nice to
hear from you...

On the Speed comparison:
My 486DX2 33 vs A2000 w/ progressive 040 (33 or 25, I dont remember):
The contest - Red Box, chrome ball, glass ball and ColrNoiz ground.
A2000 - 3 minutes.
PC - 1.5 minutes.
The results are unofficial and the competitors not representative of their
entire breed.  Just another case history.

Juha:
>...to make a shiny copper helmet like... Roman centurians...

You may want to model the parts of the helmet separately and connect them
together later.  A forms object may also help you get the 'helmet' shape
a little better.

OR - In V3.0 there is spline based, object deformation tools that work great
for the kind of thing you are trying to do.

Here's a cool finish for the helmet:  Use a brush mapped pattern as a bump
map for the patterns on the helmet. Apply the same brush again as a color
map.  Apply Antique.itx with the texture parameters set to do shiny copper
and crank up the noise value a bit to get a good grainy look - This gives
a really good 'used' look to the objects.

Paul Marino:
>... problem with transparent objects & fog ...

Don't worry 'bout your eyes, it is a bug...


To whomever was having trouble doing a football:
Try the textures, Pebbled and/or Leather. Hope that will give what you're
looking for.

Brad Molsen:
>[deleting junk objects from within imagine]

I agree, I'll see what I can do.


Sorry this is SO long - but, you all ask so many questions.  I'll keep trying
to answer them...Hope the tips are useful.

thanx...                 sk...



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 451   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 01 Feb 1994 10:11:31 -0800 (PST)
From: ANIEMANN <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: State of animation playback on PC.
Autoforwarded: false
Importance: normal
Priority: normal
Sensitivity: Company-Confidential
Ua-Content-Id: 11820A8B1D00
Hop-Count: 1

I would also like to hear about any good animation software on the PC. I
looked around in our neck of the woods up here and found only a 200x300
animation package from autodesk. There must be someting better out there.
Imagine itself will play back full screen animations with 256 colors at about
15 frames per second (on small deltas it is much faster than that). That's on
a 486DX2 66 with vesa bus. That's faster than my 3000 plays back the DCTV
anims (even in anim7 format).
andy





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 452   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 12:40:04 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Lesk)
Subject: Re: Mag Glass

>Will someone tell me, or uuencode to me in E-mail, how to make a magnifying
>glass in Imagine... ?
>
>   _:        Sren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
>  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
>  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
>  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
>   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
>   |A2000/030/882/9MB/345MB/33Mhz+SVGA /_______\                    |
>   .                                                                .
>
>... Do not remove this tag!

Would you post it as well?
        I remember something in the faq but cannont find it.



                                Thanks
                                  Lesk




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 453   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 01 Feb 1994 09:30:43 -0700
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Amiga's and FLI animations
X-Organization: VeriFone
X-Ps-Qualifiers:
 /FONT=Courier-Bold/LINES=66/LEFT_MARGIN=36/CALCULATE/TOP_MARGIN=36/BOTTOM_MARGIN=36
X-Envelope-To: email.sp.paramax.com!imagine
X-Vms-Cc: JEFF_W1

  While we're on the subject of FLI/FLC animations I thought that I would
post an interesting tidbit.

  Using a 25MHz 68030 Amiga 2000 equiped with a GVP Spectrum 28/24
graphics board, I am able to get >60fps playing 320x200 256 color
FLI's.  I don't have any FLI animations with screen resolutions larger
than this so I can't comment on how fast a 640x480 FLI would be.

  The program I was using to display the animation was EGSFlick v1.1
which is available on Aminet.

  And on another subject:  the Motorola -vs- Intel debate.   It has
been shown by independent test labs that a 25MHz 68040 is slightly
faster (overall instruction mix) than a 50MHz 80486DX2.

  Using Imagine as a benchmark test to compare the two platforms puts
the Amiga at an unfair advantage.  Impluse could improve the Amiga
version performance (I honestly believe) if they would use the C compiler
the rest of us use on the Amiga (i.e. SAS/C).  I have heard that they
are using an outdated, custom patched, C compiler (Manix?).

  I guess the 40MHz 68040 processor board for A4000's and A3000's
comming out by GVP will put the Amiga platform back in the Imagine
benchmark lead even if Impulse continues to use an outdated compiler.


-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]




+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 454   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 16:39:18 CST
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Subject: Re: simple tree animation u/l'ed


>     gfx/anim/VTree.lha
>
> Also, I'm sure you can get it to look better by adding some cool Essence
> texture maps, etc.  This just shows the shape.  This one has the "twist"
> parameter cranked up a bit to get a sort of gnarled effect.  (Which
> looks cool, IMHO).
>
> I think the tree object itself (which I did not include; go buy Vertex
> if you want to make cool trees) had about 3500 polygons.
>

Thanks Steve, that was cool.  I really liked that gnarled effect.  Looked
like it belonged in a grave yard, or perhapes some desert scene.  Could
you do one with leaves?  Perhapes just a scanlined still frame, since I've
heard the leaves add quite a few polys.  I'd like to see a full blown
leaf covered gnarley tree.(If you could group the leaves, if Vertex does
this for you, you could make some KILLER fall colored leaves using one of
those noise textures from Essence)

Hmm, Feb 1st, do you know where your Imagine 3.0 is? ;)

Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one" - Unknown
(and no, I don't want to hear a story about your distant uncle who was
born without one.  An asshole that is.)



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 455   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 01 Feb 1994 14:54:07 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steve \"Vis\" Lopez" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Parnet = Twin Express
Hop-Count: 0



On Tue, 1 Feb 1994, ANIEMANN wrote:

> Lopez - you mention that you have compared a 486 to an 040. The 486
> rendered 2-3 seconds faster. How long was the total render time? If it was
> 20 minutes then 2 seconds faster is not much, however out of 10 seconds it
> would be a lot.
> thanks, andy

Well, On a single frame on either machine, Nothing takes 20 min :)

Single frame renders average 1-4 minutes depending on complexity.  The
one we tested ran around 3 mins somewhere (scanline of course-considerably
longer with trace...)  These the IBM finished faster by about two secs,
which yes, would add up in a huge render, but for one thing.  The amiga
catches up on long renders (we used a 360 frame anim) because, at least
on my machine, the HD (scsi-2-fast) was blazingly faster than the IDE on
the IBM.  So who knows.  Also we didnt try the trick of pulling up a
single bitplane black screen on the amiga, so maybe next time we'll do that.

To the person who objects to this thread... And directed us to csaa.
So far, except for one or two unsolicited remarks, this doesn't even come
close to looking like anything on csaa. (except for your 'Crap' remark)
So far, mainly what has been discussed are the benifits of both machines
as it relates to Imagine You'll notice (aside from a few snide
remarks...) Macs have not been brought into this?  That's because Imagine
doesnt run on the mac.  So dont try and moderate.  It's not your job, and
obviously people who own both IBM's and Amiga's are interested in how
both machines perform with our software of choice.  Beleive me.  A fair,
non-ranting discussion about features and abilities would never be
allowed on csaa.  Flamebait in seconds. So, as long as we wish to have a
responsible discussion about the two (affordable) models of machine that
Imagine runs on, leave us alone.

     /----------------------------------------------\
    /    ///  Steve Lopez -> [e-mail]\
   /    ///    Student at -> Art Institute of Seattle \
  / \\\///        Program -> Audio & Video Production  \
  \  \XX/ `040'  Computer -> Amiga 2000 GVP040'33 DCTV /
   \                       : DSS8+ 9megs Flicker fxr  /
    \ "I can do that..."   : Midi DJ500c Supra 14.4k /
     \----------------------------------------------/





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 456   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Ken Morton <[e-mail]>
Subject: pc stuff
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 18:12:58 -0500 (EST)


    Can anyone point me to a 640x480 fli player for ms-dos?  I can't
find one anywhere!  The one I did find (trilobyte) says I need a 512k VGA
card a least - I have a 2meg card.  The player I have for windows just
totally wrecks up.

    I've been playing with different animations in Imagine.  I seem to
be still getting consistent frame rates.  Weird.  Maybe the jitter falls
within the uncertainty range of my timing accuracy.


                Ken



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 457   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 20:42:59 -0400 (EST)
From: ecorbin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Degrader Woes...

I have an Amiga 500 with one meg chip ram, four megs fast, one floppy
drive and AmigaOS 2.04  I have Degrader, and want to run Imagine2.0
(from the Amiga Format coverdisk)  I have tried pressing the 50HzSystem
button and then clicking Survive Reset.  The amiga reboots, and
obviously kicks into PAL, because it starts rolling like crazy until I
adjust the monitor.  The Disk animation starts playing, but when I try
to boot off of floppy, it starts churning away like it wants to boot,
but before long I get a software failure and the machine resets (after
pressing left mouse button to continue :) ).  I NEED to run
Imagine!!!!!!!  I will not sleep until it works.  I just paid ~$50 to
upgrade the agnus....  please anybody with a similar setup and a success
story mail me.

Earl C.
[e-mail]





+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 458   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 16:48:07 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)
Subject: Re:  33300 lines of drivvel from Scott...

Oh, man.  This is great.  Thanks a bunch for keeping us informed.
I did have a question, though.  Is there a bug with multiple maps
in 2.9?  Or am I doing something wrong?

Anyway, Scott, I for one am really pleased you decided to come
    on line with us imagineers.  Thanks!
steveZ                 Rhythm & Hues, Inc.
celia![e-mail]
"That's not Art Linkletter, that's Mickey Mouse!"
            -Art Linkletter, Disneyland opening day



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 459   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 23:00:40 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
Subject: Re: Roman Helmet, how to?


Well....break it down, break it down, break it down....

I would probably start using a sphere as the begining and then removing the
lower half.  Or, I might make a curve and sweep it and then remove parts,
and length parts and scale it so it was a little thinner than deep.

Metal parts around it could be thin parts form a sphere (allready curved
foryou) or flat planes conformed or manually bent to go around the outer
part of the helmet.

The nose piece should most definitely be modeled separately, though you
might want to have part of the hemlet come down to help merge the 2
together.

The feather I would probably model as a simple plane, curve it ro bend and
then extrude it.  Then apply a bump map of long thing lines along it to
make it look bumpy.

I usually break the items down and then join them together where I want
perfect seams (usually going point by point when I have to).  Other wise
just group them.

Hope this helps!

PS:  This would be an interesting tutorial since the object is not so easy
     that's it's trivial, though it's not so complex that it's impossible.


--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail] - CWRU, Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
| Computer Graphics/Animation! - Liquid Vision SIG (go liquid),  Freenet   |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 460   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Mark B Sachs <[e-mail]>
Date:     Wed, 2 Feb 1994 01:10:44 -0500

First off: Scott, thanks a lot for posting here and answering all the
questions in such detail. I for one am reassured about 3.0 (okay, okay,
I _suppose_ I can wait 'till March...) and about Imagine's continued
support.

Anyway, I have one question.

One thing that I've always wished for in the Action Editor was the
ability to resize, move, cut, paste, and save the action lines. For example,
right now I'm working on revising an earlier project by having more frames
in the individual animations, and thus, more smoothness. As it stands, I'll
have to go into every frame number box in every action line of some fairly
complex effects and change them all, and hope they come out right. If there
was a resize function, I could simply drag-select every action line (ideally)
and stretch them to occupy more frames. With cut, paste, and save, I could
snip elaborate effects out of one animation and easily paste them into
another, and so on. Any chance there's something like this in 3.0?

-Mark



+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 461   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: 01 Feb 94 17:11:33 CET
From: [e-mail] (Soren Wind)
Subject: 1 Another 2.9 bug.



 [ 1 Feb 94 ] [ Nikola Vukovljak -> me ]

 >> if you in the detail editor, add a ground, and select pick points onm the
 >> ground, you are not able to return, to pick objects or other pick/drag
 >> menu items.....

 NV> Just tested this in 2.0 and it is there too ! Still, I never thought of
 NV> using Pick points mode on the ground object. After all, it should not
 NV> be  possible, and changing things doesn't seem to have an effect when
 NV> rendered.
 NV> Still, a bug it is.

This i can't understand, i often used this feature in 2.0, but now i can't
do it anymore.. ?

   _:        Sren -IZI- Wind          __     _____        _______  _:
  / \\     Imagine'er in IMPACT       (__) /\/\___ \/\_____\     / / \\
  \ //   Fidonet  : 2:230/418.30      /  \/ \/ \/  /  \ ___/\/ \/  \ //
  _\/   Amiganet : 39:141/104.30     /____\  \__\ /__| \\___/\__\  _\/
   :   Internet : [e-mail]     /     \      |__\_____\     :
   |A2000/030/882/9MB/345MB/33Mhz+SVGA /_______\                    |
   .                                                                .

... Anybody who'd run a COMM program is a COMMIE.


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 462   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 23:50:49 -0400 (EST)
From: ecorbin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Degrader Woes...



On Tue, 1 Feb 1994, ecorbin wrote:

> Imagine!!!!!!!  I will not sleep until it works.  I just paid ~$50 to
> upgrade the agnus....  please anybody with a similar setup and a success
> story mail me.
>
> Earl C.
> [e-mail]

Never mind.  Basically the problem was in resetting the computer.
Little did I know I could press Survive No Reset and not have to reboot.
I'm used to using version 1.00 of Degrader.  You had to reset on that one.

I can sleep now. Though I probably won't now that I can run Imagine. :)

Earl C.
[e-mail]






+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 463   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Hong Kong Fuey <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 13:13:18 GMT
Subject: Bump maps and textures

Hello,

These are probably daft questions, but I got Imagine V2.0 off of the Amiga
Format coverdisk and as you can imagine (hahaha) the documentation is a bit
sparse to say the least. Anyway after reading through that last '33000(?) lines
of etc...' Email (that was pages and pages long) I got the impression that it
is possible to do bump maps (as with Real 3d), if so how is it done.
Also, I keep hearing of all these different textures, apart from the Essence
ones available, how many actually came with the original Imagine V2.0, because
I've only got about 6 that came on the coverdisk. If there are more, where can
I get them from, ie are there any in any archives???

BYE...SP.

PS. What is phong shading????????


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 464   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

Date:  Wed, 2 Feb 1994 08:48:27 -0500
 [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.311:02.01.94.13.48.29]
From: "rob (r.d.) hounsell" <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Re: Action editor...? (was: 33300 lines of drivel)

Mark,

> One thing that I've always wished for in the Action Editor was the
> ability to resize, move, cut, paste, and save the action lines. For example,
> right now I'm working on revising an earlier project by having more frames
> in the individual animations, and thus, more smoothness. As it stands, I'll
> have to go into every frame number box in every action line of some fairly
> complex effects and change them all, and hope they come out right. If there
> was a resize function, I could simply drag-select every action line (ideally)
> and stretch them to occupy more frames. With cut, paste, and save, I could
> snip elaborate effects out of one animation and easily paste them into
> another, and so on. Any chance there's something like this in 3.0?

  I'm working on something like this for exactly the same reasons you need it.
What I'm attempting to do is to use the ASCII version of my staging file
generated using Glenn Lewis' T3DLIB and feed it into a PERL script which would
compress / expand / whatever to do the "dragging" for me. Then I'll convert it
back into a binary staging file. This way, I can say stuff like "expand all
timelines by 20%" (for example), and it'll do it in one fell swoop.

  I've just started on the project, but it should do what I need, except for the
effects.

Rob

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Rob Hounsell                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@NMERH53           |
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| System Performance:                    PHONE: [phone]                |
| Paradigm Club Design Team. Dept. PS27  ESN: 395-2904                        |
| Bell Northern Research                                                      |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


+-->> MESSAGE NUMBER: 465   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B-)

From: Ken Morton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Action editor...? (was: 33300 lines of drivel)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 09:34:07 -0500 (EST)

> One thing that I've always wished for in the Action Editor was the
> ability to resize, move, cut, paste, and save the action lines. For example,
> right now I'm working on revising an earlier project by having more frames
> in the individual animations, and thus, more smoothness. As it stands, I'll
> have to go into every frame number box in every action line of some fairly
> complex effects and change them all, and hope they come out right. If there
> was a resize function, I could simply drag-select every action line (ideally)
> and stretch them to occupy more frames. With cut, paste, and save, I could
> snip elaborate effects out of one animation and easily paste them into
> another, and so on. Any chance there's something like this in 3.0?


    I've played with Infini-D on the Mac - they have a great way of
handling the above.  Their time line is like the action editor except:  It
isn't frame-dependent (everything is in time increments and you can tell
it to render x number of frames per second (this sort of functionality is
*desperately needed* in Imagine!).  You can cut/paste/copy drag all the
event points.  It is hierarchial (sp?) - groups can be opened or closed
(like the list view of files/folders in the Macintosh system 7) and you
can do things to individual group components (this is supposed to be in
3.0 no?).  But the time-line does show as much information as Imagine -
there is just a little knob that indicated that something has changed -
could be anything (this sucks).  If Imagine can keep their high-info
paradigm and incorpate some of the above as well, it would be amazing.

    Oh, one other thing Infini-D has that sorta neat.  On any view you
can drag a selection box and have it rendered.  So you can spot check
something w/o rendering the whole thing (Like, I was doing molding on a
bookcase - getting the corners to be seamless (boy that
sharp-edge/soft-edge stuff is a pain!  But it looks great) was a pain
because every time I adjusted it, I had to qrender the whole thing to see
if it was ok.).

    Oh and that pan and zoom with the mouse and the modifier keys like
Moray on the PC would be nice.


    BTW my command key equivs. don't work.  Imagine 2.9 on the PC.
Stuff like move, rotate and recenter work, but not zoom in/out.

            Ken




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              File Generated By NIK's QWIK STRIPPER ©1993 OSCARsoft
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